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Underseal... yes or no.. and where from?

Discussion in 'Problems, Fixes, Tips...' started by Sandie, Sep 1, 2017.

  1. Sandie

    Sandie Copenworld Newbie

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2017
    Location:
    Wirksworth, Derbyshire
    Car(s):
    Copen 1.3 2008
    I bought my 2008 1.3 Copen in January. I was aware of a couple of spots of corrosion, i.e. rust discolouration just coming through at the bottom of the front arches behind the wheel, and two thumb-nail sized paint bubbles on the boot lid. I had the chance to look at the underneath of the car before I bought it and it didn't look too bad. Some rust on the chassis members, yes, but nothing you wouldn't expect on a 9 year car of any make. I took the car to a local paint shop who quoted £200 for the paint repairs. I then took it to a bigger body shop recommended by a friend, who do undersealing (and work on classic cars). They didn't have a ramp free, so he just peered underneath and had a feel around. I have been quoted £875 for the paintwork and the undersealing. This seems a lot, as I had my then 10-year old motorhome undersealed (albeit 6 years ago) at a specialist rust-proofing place for £490. I plan to go back and get this new place to look at it properly underneath and give me a breakdown of paintwork vs. underseal costs, but my question is, should I get it undersealed at all? I have read that it can do more harm than good if not properly prepared. The place I used for the motorhome is too far away to be practical. I have a garage with a pit, but can't get the Copen in, as it grounds on the slope, otherwise I would get underneath myself and do some work with Dinitrol, where it's needed. I don't mind paying out to look after my car, but don't want to risk making matters worse by inappropriate treatment.
     
  2. Salieri

    Salieri Copenworld Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2012
    Location:
    Germany
    Car(s):
    Pearlescent White Copen (1.3 K3-VE)
    Hi :D
    The boot lid is made out of aluminum, so its not regular rust but aluminum corrosion, which is bad, but not as bad as real rust. If you decide to get it fixed, be sure to tell them its aluminum, otherwise they might use the wrong primer and make it worse than before.

    I would definitely treat the rust that's already there, especially on the underside. If you are a DIY person you can buy a can of owatrol oil (ebay), get the car on a lift/ramp, remove all loose rust and treat all rusty spots. That's the least you can do and it will maybe cost you 20 quid for the oil.
    Can you use wood/ramps to get the copen over the slope?

    Just remember: Dinitrol is rust protection, not rust treatment. So if you paint it over rust it might still rust underneath

    If you want an underseal that does not produce a thick layer of goo, I would go for FluidFilm, its transparent and oily. If you want the black goo, then treat the underside with Fluidfilm first, then PermaFilm. I have done this to my car and it's great.

    The shop that quoted 875 for paint and underseal might be a good deal if they use the right products. Do you know which products they might use?
     
  3. Sandie

    Sandie Copenworld Newbie

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2017
    Location:
    Wirksworth, Derbyshire
    Car(s):
    Copen 1.3 2008
    Thanks, Salieri,

    I was intending to get the paintwork sorted anyway and I already told them that the boot lid is aluminium. They have done some classic cars, and are familiar with how to paint ali properly. It's a full underseal that I am wary of, although it was my initial suggestion. I am taking the car back to him next week, when he says he will have a vehicle lift free, and have a good look underneath with him and discuss options. If the original underseal is largely intact and there's just some low level corrosion here and there I think I would prefer to deal with each occurance, as you suggest, rather than completely cover up everything that's there with Waxoyl or whatever. I posted my query in case there was a large body of opinion out there as regards underbody maintenance and Copens. I am pretty practical, but happy to pay someone else to do the dirty jobs, especially as, if I can't get the car in the garage, I can't easily inspect and maintain the underneath myself. I am going to try building a ramp as I'd really like to get it indoors over winter. We often get snow here, and I don't relish seeing the car up to its windows in it!
    By the way, my Copen doesn't have plastic liners on the leading edge of the rear wheel arches, Is this right? I can't see any obvious attachment points, to suggest there were any, but it seems strange that this most vulnerable of places would not be protected, when the rest of the wheel arches are.
     
  4. Salieri

    Salieri Copenworld Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2012
    Location:
    Germany
    Car(s):
    Pearlescent White Copen (1.3 K3-VE)
    My rear wheel arches also have no plastic liners, I guess it is normal.
    I hope you can get the next steps sorted soon, especially without paying too much :D
    The idea of looking at the underside with a technician seems to be a good option. This way you will not be fooled and you can get a better picture of the rust situation yourself.
     
  5. BarnsleyRob

    BarnsleyRob Copenworld Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2017
    Location:
    South Yorks
    Car(s):
    2009/59 silver Copen 1298 cc (now gone to a new home)
    I've got a 59 plate 1.3 and was also able to inspect underneath before I bought it. Like yours, it looked okay with the usual light surface rust you'd expect at that age.

    I had it fully Dinitrol treated in June for around £550 at a place in Askern Doncaster. The difference is astounding and looks like new. They steam clean and then remove the surface rust before treating it and there's a 3 year warranty. The only advisories were the fuel tank (which they didn't fancy using a grinder on) and the drain hole on the boot lid.

    I'd recommend them for the underseal and will probably use chipsaway in chesterfield to rectify the paint. They did a really good job on a mates Tesla which has some fancy paint that costs a bomb.
     
  6. Sandie

    Sandie Copenworld Newbie

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2017
    Location:
    Wirksworth, Derbyshire
    Car(s):
    Copen 1.3 2008
    Thanks, Rob. It was JR Classics in Askern that did my motorhome 6 years ago.They did a fantastic job. I would go to them, but it's 60 miles away and there's no practical public transport back, so someone would have to come in another car ro take me home and the same to collect it. That's 360 vehicle miles. It was fine to do that for the motorhome, as I couldn't find anyone else nearer who had had experience of them, and he was recommended by a fellow motorhomer. I had hoped that I would find someone closer to home for the Copen. Anyway, I will wait to see what things look like when I get a good look underneath and whether I feel confident that they know what they are doing as regards underseal etc. Their paintwork exertise looks good, but I will check out Chipsaway as Chesterfield's convenient for me.
     
  7. BarnsleyRob

    BarnsleyRob Copenworld Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2017
    Location:
    South Yorks
    Car(s):
    2009/59 silver Copen 1298 cc (now gone to a new home)
    I used JR Classics too. I'm retired and happy to pick you up from Askern and stop you at Donny station. I'm usually free most weeks on Tuesday, Wednesday, and Friday.
     
    Vin Petrol likes this.
  8. Sandie

    Sandie Copenworld Newbie

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2017
    Location:
    Wirksworth, Derbyshire
    Car(s):
    Copen 1.3 2008
    That's a nice offer, Rob. I'm hoping to get the car looked at properly this Saturday so will decide what to do after that. Sandie
     
  9. BarnsleyRob

    BarnsleyRob Copenworld Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2017
    Location:
    South Yorks
    Car(s):
    2009/59 silver Copen 1298 cc (now gone to a new home)
    @Sandie
    If you decide on JRC, just let me know. For a straightforward underseal, I'm guessing Joe could get it done virtually same day. Mine was full cavity Dinitrol, etc and as I was going away, I let him have it for 2-3 weeks.

    Either way, my offer still stands - just a case of sorting mutually convenient dates.
     
  10. Sandie

    Sandie Copenworld Newbie

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2017
    Location:
    Wirksworth, Derbyshire
    Car(s):
    Copen 1.3 2008
    Thank you Rob. I have re-visited my closer garage and had a good look under the car with them. I am confident that they know what they are doing, AND they can deal with the minor paintwork issues, so I have booked in with them. Many thanks for your kind offer, anyway.
     
  11. BarnsleyRob

    BarnsleyRob Copenworld Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2017
    Location:
    South Yorks
    Car(s):
    2009/59 silver Copen 1298 cc (now gone to a new home)
    No worries. I'm looking for a decent garage to sort out the minor rust spots on my sills. JRC undersealed and treated the cavities but there's still some minor surface stuff. I might try chips away.
     

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