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Need some help with the roof hydraulics....

Discussion in 'Problems, Fixes, Tips...' started by Copen_NW_UK, Sep 7, 2018.

  1. Copen_NW_UK

    Copen_NW_UK Copenworld Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2018
    Location:
    North West UK
    Car(s):
    Copen 659cc Turbo (L880K)
    Nissan Qashqai
    Hi

    I need some help!

    On the roof motor I disconnected the hydraulic cables and plug to remove the unit whilst I was sorting out the rust in the boot well, I have subsequently put it all back together tried the roof to see if it was still working and I had connected everything correctly but it seems I haven't! The hydraulic reservoir is now empty, fluid all in the boot and a roof that won't go back up :tmi:

    Firstly does anyone have any close up pictures of the hydraulic cables that attach to the side of the pump so I can see if I put them back in the correct order? Also how many washers between each hydraulic cable, is it washer cable washer cable washer? I took pictures before I took it off but they have been deleted by my 3 year old!

    Secondly does any one know what sort of fluid the pump takes and how to refill it? Been looking at past posts but there never seems to be a solution to the fluid and method of filling.

    Just searching the forum now for manual roof mechanism so I can close the roof over and access the hydraulic roof pump.

    Any help much appreciated!
     
  2. Salieri

    Salieri Copenworld Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2012
    Location:
    Germany
    Car(s):
    Pearlescent White Copen (1.3 K3-VE)
    You could ask Webasto, the company that produces the hydraulics for this car for the correct fluid. But I guess something like Castrol Hyspin ZH-M might work.
     
  3. Copen_NW_UK

    Copen_NW_UK Copenworld Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2018
    Location:
    North West UK
    Car(s):
    Copen 659cc Turbo (L880K)
    Nissan Qashqai
    The ZH-M is comparable, the one I just found was a BMW specialist one so thanks for the tip Salieri
    Also found out you can unscrew the hex bolt on the front and or remove the jubilee clip to fill up the fluid so will give this a go in the morning.

    Just need some kind person now to take some photos of the pump and the hydraulic cables and advise on the washer to cable ratio... I will be forever grateful if anyone has the time to upload some
     
  4. BarnsleyRob

    BarnsleyRob Copenworld Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2017
    Location:
    South Yorks
    Car(s):
    2009/59 silver Copen 1298 cc (now gone to a new home)
    If you took photos on your iPhone, you can recover them very easily.

    By cables, I assume you mean the hydraulic lines and I’d be very reluctant to disconnect mine purely due to the risk of losing the fluid and ending up in the same position.

    Try recovering your pictures first.
     
  5. Copen_NW_UK

    Copen_NW_UK Copenworld Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2018
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    Car(s):
    Copen 659cc Turbo (L880K)
    Nissan Qashqai
    Tried to recover the pics but no joy was taken on a old digi camera I have knocking about. Yes the hydraulic lines I mean....no please don't anyone disconnect their hydraulic lines fluid comes out everywhere! I just need really close up pics of the side of the unit where each line goes (in pairs) especially the washer element between both lines on each bolt on the side on the unit.

    Thanks for the help so far, at least I know now how to manually close the roof now which will no doubt be really useful in the future.
     
  6. Salieri

    Salieri Copenworld Veteran

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    Jun 19, 2012
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    Germany
    Car(s):
    Pearlescent White Copen (1.3 K3-VE)
    one.JPG polizei.JPG two.JPG

    I guess I have a new project going, sanding and respraying the boot. I thought the red stuff was Oxyblock (a red rust stopper I like to use), but it turns out its rust :D
    Cannot recommend "Presto BOB" rust sealant then, which was used in this particular part of the boot
     
  7. Copen_NW_UK

    Copen_NW_UK Copenworld Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2018
    Location:
    North West UK
    Car(s):
    Copen 659cc Turbo (L880K)
    Nissan Qashqai
    You are a legend! Exactly what I needed, looks like I put the washers back correctly same with the cable order by the looks of things, I think my problem is the angle of the hydraulic lines as I put mine back differently which would mean the holes is the metal ends and the hole in the bolts would be off causing a leak I assume.

    Sorry to give you a project but at least you can take the rust early!

    Thanks again!
     
  8. Salieri

    Salieri Copenworld Veteran

    Joined:
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    Pearlescent White Copen (1.3 K3-VE)
    Glad I could help.
    By the way, I have found a catalogue of the company Hoerbiger, who produce the hydraulic pumps for the Webasto roof mechanism. They recommend mineral oil according to DIN 51524 (german industry norm) for most of their hydraulic pumps.

    You should be able to find it if you google for "DIN 51524" or "HLP" (22, 46 or 62)
    I'm just a bit confused about the viscosity, the "standard" DIN 51524 oil has a viscosity of 46mm²/s, while the Castrol Hyspin only has about 18mm²/s (thinner).
    Not 100% sure which is better suited

    This is an example: High Performer HLP 46 Hydrauliköl - Hydraulics / compressor oil - Oils at 123spareparts.co.uk
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2018
  9. Copen_NW_UK

    Copen_NW_UK Copenworld Member

    Joined:
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    Nissan Qashqai
    There is a guy in the UK who refurbishes the units and uses BMW Specific Hydraulic Oil by Febi 1Ltr. not sure of the viscosity but that’s what I have purchased for mine.

    Been raining here constantly today so hopefully be able to try the fluid this week and report back.
     
  10. Salieri

    Salieri Copenworld Veteran

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    Pearlescent White Copen (1.3 K3-VE)
    Viscosity of Febi 02615 Hydrauliköl ZH-M is about 16mm²/s, comparable to the Castrol Hyspin ZH-M.
    It should be a mineral oil, but not necessarily compliant with DIN 51524. I hope it works and does not damage the pump
     
  11. Copen_NW_UK

    Copen_NW_UK Copenworld Member

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    Car(s):
    Copen 659cc Turbo (L880K)
    Nissan Qashqai
    Well finally got round to checking the roof hydraulics, double checked they were all connected in the right order, topped up the fluid and..........nothing!!! Boot catch pops open, motor engages then just the motor noise. Boot won't tilt open therefore roof doesn't move therefore still an issue with the hydraulics I think!!! Now I am puzzled really wish I hadn't taken the hydraulic lines off now, any one reading this DON'T DO IT!

    Checked the pump after the roof test and it is leaking hydraulic fluid from the rear of the unit, not sure how as it wasn't knocked or damaged on removal or reinstalation.

    I am assuming that boot lid reverse open and roof down is all operated through the hydraulic lines and the pump?

    Looks like I am going to have to buy a new pump and check to see if that's the problem.

    Anyone any other ideas?
     
  12. Salieri

    Salieri Copenworld Veteran

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    Pearlescent White Copen (1.3 K3-VE)
    Air in the system? Maybe you need to bleed the air out of the lines, air is compressible and will not move the roof
     
  13. Copen_NW_UK

    Copen_NW_UK Copenworld Member

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    Nissan Qashqai
    Any idea how I can do this?
     
  14. Salieri

    Salieri Copenworld Veteran

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    Copen_NW_UK likes this.
  15. Copen_NW_UK

    Copen_NW_UK Copenworld Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2018
    Location:
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    Car(s):
    Copen 659cc Turbo (L880K)
    Nissan Qashqai
    Progress...slow progress but progress none the less!!

    Managed to get an hour after work today to stand over the roof pump and ponder my next step whilst lubricating all the boots moving parts. Thinking about the air pressure in the lines pointer I decided to loosen the hydraulic line bolts and there was a whoosh of pressure release so tightened them back up, topped up the fluid wrapped a few bits of kitchen roll around the various parts of the pump to pin point an exact leak and gave the roof a try......this time the boot opened (hurrah) but then slowed right down (oooh) decided not to push my luck any further so pushed the roof button to close the boot which it did fully.

    Opened the boot and lifted the carpet to see the pump and yep it has leaked fluid but now I know where it is coming from. There is a solenoid at the rear of the pump which has a tube on it that goes into metal box next to all the hydraulic lines, this tube has 3 rubber O-rings which should seal to stop fluid leaking out under pressure.

    Next step is to renew those O-rings and try it it again tomorrow!
     
    Salieri likes this.
  16. Copen_NW_UK

    Copen_NW_UK Copenworld Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2018
    Location:
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    Car(s):
    Copen 659cc Turbo (L880K)
    Nissan Qashqai
    Does anybody have a photo of their roof pump solenoid they could share. Think I may have found my problem the bracket where it attaches looks bent and doesn’t sit flush which is exposing the outer O-ring and could be the leak problem.
     

    Attached Files:

  17. BarnsleyRob

    BarnsleyRob Copenworld Veteran

    Joined:
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    Car(s):
    2009/59 silver Copen 1298 cc (now gone to a new home)
    At least you’re making progress. I can’t help with the pics as I no longer have my Copen but, looking at @Salieri pictures, it looks like the flange joking the pump to the hydraulic housing is wrong. His looks flat from the angle of the picture, whereas yours has a stepped profile and the ring below is off centre. Have you accidentally used the wrong piece in the wrong place ?
     
  18. Copen_NW_UK

    Copen_NW_UK Copenworld Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2018
    Location:
    North West UK
    Car(s):
    Copen 659cc Turbo (L880K)
    Nissan Qashqai
    45B7C9C6-99FB-4C85-9C32-55603B8DA429.jpeg A3BD1411-0038-470E-B74C-D4372BFCDBAA.jpeg 8F6B9ADB-C48E-4769-9C23-E86CBE1FC9E8.jpeg

    Well today was the day!

    Realised from a lot of searching the net and different angles looking at the solenoid and the pump housing that mine definitely wasn’t right. Turns out that the flange as it is bolted to the housing had bent under the hydraulic pressure when I had initially connected everything back up incorrectly. The pressure had pushed the solenoid out and bent the metal flange!

    So with the trusty vice and some flattening of the flange with a hammer I managed to get it flat (well flat as I could, picture above)

    Connected it all back up, topped the fluid back up double checked everything then held my breath as I pressed the roof button...I now have a convertible again!!!

    This was a steep learning curve to say the least but this is what I bought the car for, to say that I am exstatic is an understatement!!

    Thank you to everyone for their contribution, this forum is an absolute nesessity for a Copen owner!
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
    Anji likes this.
  19. BarnsleyRob

    BarnsleyRob Copenworld Veteran

    Joined:
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    2009/59 silver Copen 1298 cc (now gone to a new home)
    I guess you could have just read my post.

    You’re welcome !
     

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