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OBDII

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by freddyzdead, Jan 20, 2017.

  1. freddyzdead

    freddyzdead Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2017
    Location:
    Gosford, NSW, Australia
    Car(s):
    2003 Copen
    This is weird. From perusing the forums, it is obvious that UK Copens indeed have OBD2 functionality. But connecting a code reader to my 2003 Australian Copen gets me nowhere. Nothing happens. I need to know from some of the other Aussie owners whether OBD2 works or not. And if not, why not? They would have to produce a special batch of ECUs with all the OBD code missing. Why would they do that? I have a 2003 Sirion also, and it, too, has a non-functioning OBD connector. Now, my question is, if I obtained an ECU module from someone in the UK, and fitted it to my car, would it then have OBD2? Or would you have to change all the ECU modules, since there is a fair chance that they all talk among themselves, and a foreigner wouldn't be tolerated.

    I came across a YouTube clip by some guy in the UK, who used a 260 megabyte 1080p video clip just to explain that you can program a new key for your Copen just by shorting out pins 4 and 13 of the OBD connector, inserting your black master key in the ignition, turning it on, turning it off, inserting your new blank key within ten seconds, turning it on and off. And your blank key is programmed. Well, I tried this, and it didn't work. When I tried the new "programmed" key, the engine turned over, but didn't fire. That means it is still blank. I bought the blank keys on Ebay; I assume they are the correct type. Can anybody shed any light on this mystery? Or is it just another aspect of the non-functional OBD2 in Australian Copens?
     
  2. jez77

    jez77 Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    Location:
    Brisbane Australia
    Car(s):
    2003 Daihatsu Copen
    2000 Toyota RAV4
    I think it was about 2006 before Aussie cars had to be compliant with OBD2.
    And yes they did make some changes to the Aussie models as many other manufactures did when the came to oz.
    U.K. Copens had different wiring to OZ but I think ours are the same as the Jap models.
    Jap cars became OBD2 in 2003 I believe don't know if an ECU change would work though.
     
  3. Number6

    Number6 Inactive User

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2013
    Location:
    Dublin
    Car(s):
    2005 0.7L Copen
    This video? That's me :)
     
  4. freddyzdead

    freddyzdead Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2017
    Location:
    Gosford, NSW, Australia
    Car(s):
    2003 Copen
    Yup, that's the one. I tried it 3 times, and the new key remained unprogrammed. The engine turned over but didn't fire. At least it didn't go into theft mode, assuming there is one.

    Maybe this is another aspect of the missing OBD2 functionality. Though, I would imagine this would be built into the immobilizer ECU, which I haven't located yet, but I imagine would be inside the shroud around the steering column. Perhaps the function is there, but isn't wired to the OBD connector.

    It would be nice to have info on the differences between UK and Aussie Copens.
     
  5. Number6

    Number6 Inactive User

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2013
    Location:
    Dublin
    Car(s):
    2005 0.7L Copen
    The EU Copen's don't appear to have a theft mode. The immobiliser works by disabling the EFI.

    I find it difficult to believe that the AU Copens don't support OBD-II. Like, why would Daihatsu remove functionality like that, yet leave the OBD-II port? Are you getting a voltage on your OBD-II scanner?
     
  6. freddyzdead

    freddyzdead Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2017
    Location:
    Gosford, NSW, Australia
    Car(s):
    2003 Copen
    The scanner tries all communication protocols, then gives up. I don't know why they would remove this functionality, simply because it isn't a mandatory requirement (yet). It became so in 2006.
     
  7. Number6

    Number6 Inactive User

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2013
    Location:
    Dublin
    Car(s):
    2005 0.7L Copen
    Makes no sense.

    BTW, the reason I made that video is because I had to figure out how to program keys myself - there was nothing in the owners manual on how to do it :)
     
  8. freddyzdead

    freddyzdead Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2017
    Location:
    Gosford, NSW, Australia
    Car(s):
    2003 Copen
    Hi Number6
    Further to this, I have since discovered that the black key is indeed type 4C (TI), as you said, but the two grey ones I have are type 67. I know this because I have a simple key copier I got on Ebay, and if it doesn't copy, which seems to be usually the case, it at least identifies the type. I only just got this gadget back from a friend I loaned it to. I have ordered two more blank keys which were advertised as 4C. When they arrive, I shall find out whether the key copier actually does work if you have the right key type. I tried copying the 4C key to a 67 one, and it gave an error, as you might expect. I don't know what these 67 keys I've got are meant for, but they're definitely Daihatsu ones. Besides anything else, the copier reports that they are encrypted, which usually means you can't copy them, anyway. I got them to try with the Sirion a long time ago. I'll come back here and report if/when I get some results with the new 4C ones. Anyway, I would expect that all keys should be 4C if the master is 4C. About it not being in the owners manual; I wouldn't expect it to be. Firstly for security reasons, and also because this sort of thing is a bit above the average owner, who got 3 keys anyway when he bought the car.
     
  9. marnob

    marnob Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2014
    Location:
    Gold Coast, Australia
    Car(s):
    Copen L880K 2004
    I bought a key from the UK a year a go. It starts the car no problem but has issues opening the door and inside locks as the cut is not quite right?
    To be honest, with the dramas of dealing with overseas stuff and the exchange rate its near the same to go to a good Locksmith here as I found out, and get them to cut and program a new key for it. Cost is about $80.
    The key code is in the manual.
    Unfortunately for me I only have the grey key as the useless chick who owned it lost the other keys and the fob as well!
    Speaking of that I got a second hand fob in mint condition from Japan, checked with the locksmith and it is transmitting, but I have tired everything to get it to work but nothing happens?
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2017
  10. freddyzdead

    freddyzdead Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2017
    Location:
    Gosford, NSW, Australia
    Car(s):
    2003 Copen
    It's been a long time since I heard of anyone in this country getting a key from a locksmith for as little as $80.
    You are not in good shape if all you have is the grey key, as the black one is the master.
    As for the lock fob, you have to match its code with what the immobilizer is expecting. Assuming that it's the immobilizer that handles the locks. These cars have little computers all over the place, so it's hard to be sure. And because of security concerns, this kind of info is very scarce. I don't have any kind of remote door locking with mine; the previous owner didn't know anything about a lock fob. I am considering adding an aftermarket transmitter/receiver, maybe to the driver's door, but unlocking the boot will be more complicated.
     
  11. marnob

    marnob Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2014
    Location:
    Gold Coast, Australia
    Car(s):
    Copen L880K 2004
    It was a local Locksmith on the Gold Coast. I went to him coz I was having trouble getting the fob to sync with the car.
    He couldn't get it to work either but while I was there I asked about a key. That was the price he gave about a year ago or so.
    The key I got from the UK worked fine but the cut wasn't perfect.
    Yeah, I was pissed off when I found out the black key is important but everything seems to work ok?
    I did wonder if I had the black key, would it make the fob sync then? Maybe it is needed for this to happen but haven't heard that?
    I am familiar with how the fob works but I have tried everything suggested on here and elsewhere but nothing. Even replaced the battery.
    One Japanese guy extended the Ariel on the computer for it, which is tucked under the dash near the glove box. Very hard to get at.
    I just couldn't get that thing out.
    Annoying as it would be good to get it to work.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2017
  12. jez77

    jez77 Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    Location:
    Brisbane Australia
    Car(s):
    2003 Daihatsu Copen
    2000 Toyota RAV4
    Not sure if it works with a copen but one trick we used with the RAV4 was to cable tie the working immobiliser key as close to the ignition as you can then you can use any cut key you want to start it.

    Can't help with the fob but I'd be temped to install an aftermarket one and just wire it in.
     
  13. freddyzdead

    freddyzdead Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2017
    Location:
    Gosford, NSW, Australia
    Car(s):
    2003 Copen
    It will be interesting when the two black keys I ordered get here. I got Bunnings to cut the last one for me; they had a lot of trouble because the original was slightly bent. When I put the newly cut key in the ignition, it wouldn't turn, so they didn't charge me anything. Later I found it will turn if you insert it one way but not the other way. It didn't work, anyway; wrong key type. I've since straightened the original.

    @jez77 if you do that, you're defeating the whole security system. Doesn't seem like something you'd really want to do.

    @marnob There might be a way to reprogram the fob by getting the car to do it, like the immobilizer key programming, by shorting 2 pins in the OBD connector and doing a few other things. This kind of info isn't usually made public, for obvious reasons.
     
  14. marnob

    marnob Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2014
    Location:
    Gold Coast, Australia
    Car(s):
    Copen L880K 2004
    I would like to know if the car requires the "black key" to enable it to sync to the fob?
    Does anyone know if that might be true?
    If so I might get a genuine one sent out from Daihatsu in Japan?
    The OBD connector does work. I haven't tried any cables as such but I had to short some terminals out to reset the windows/roof computer.
    When I bought the car the boot wouldn't close and roof wouldn't open. A real risk but I figure I could fix it which I did.
    Reset the computer codes and found a broken wire on the computer plug. All good now.
    I am going to check the OBD plug when I get a chance and see what pins are actually active.
    You can check online by following the No of the pins that are active. You can then find out if it is OBDII or not.
    There is a listing for the L880K on a Swiss site that tunes the ECU via the OBDII port with a programed plug you place there.
    Once put in you leave it there all the time. If you sell the car you can take it with you and have it programed again for your next car if you
    like? There listing is for OBDII and the L880K is listed.
     
  15. freddyzdead

    freddyzdead Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2017
    Location:
    Gosford, NSW, Australia
    Car(s):
    2003 Copen
    I don't think the immobilizer and the door locks are necessarily connected with each other. In most cars, they're not, I don't think. The Copen has little computers all over the place, the door locks could be in the roof ECU, for instance.

    I would be very interested in whatever information you have about the OBDII connector. I think Daihatsu used it for their own purposes. I'm now certain that European Copens are OBDII compliant whereas Aussie ones are not, until 2006, but you won't find one newer than 2003 unless someone imported it themselves. Thanks, Toyota. Sniffing to see what pins are active won't tell you much. Many of them are undefined and/or used for specific purposes.

    The dongle you're talking about only works with functional OBD port. I have tried code readers in both my Copen and my 2003 Sirion and the reader tries all communication protocols and then just gives up. Tried a bluetooth one, same thing.
     
  16. Number6

    Number6 Inactive User

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2013
    Location:
    Dublin
    Car(s):
    2005 0.7L Copen
    The remote fob for the doors isn't tied to the immobiliser. There are instructions here on how to sync a new fob with the car - from memory it's:

    Remove the negative battery terminal
    Wait a minute or two
    Attach the battery
    Press both buttons on the fob until the car "sees" the fob and tells you by locking the doors
    Press the open button on the fob
     
  17. marnob

    marnob Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2014
    Location:
    Gold Coast, Australia
    Car(s):
    Copen L880K 2004
    Yes, you are correct. There are a couple of ways very similar to that on a thread somewhere here.
    I have tried all that stuff but it doesn't seem to recognize it?
    I will have another go using your description and give the results.
    Still gotta check the pins out on the OBD plug yet as well.
    As for the tuning of the copen I still haven't decided on anything yet until I suss out the plug.
     
  18. marnob

    marnob Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2014
    Location:
    Gold Coast, Australia
    Car(s):
    Copen L880K 2004
    I have a funny feeling that the Aust Copen's might not be OBDII and the comments above are right?
    That is perhaps why its so hard to get anything to read them, let alone download the ECU file etc!
    I have searched, read and sent emails to everything I could find for weeks and really there isn't that much in the end that's useful.
    I did this about a year ago as well and came up with nothing.
    Grunt had trouble trying to get his D-Sport ECU to read with anything.
    I was trying to find something that would copy the ECU file to my laptop so I can get it remapped?
    Of course trying not to spend stupid amounts of money doing it but I reckon it is just easier to fork out the bucks for a D-Sport (55,000 used)
    or get a remapped one (35,000) from Japan to get the extra performance.
    Will look at the pins this weekend but I don't hold out much hope.
     
  19. jez77

    jez77 Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    Location:
    Brisbane Australia
    Car(s):
    2003 Daihatsu Copen
    2000 Toyota RAV4
    I had a Unichip put on mine and was happy with the results. Bit dearer than the Dsport but fully programable.
     
  20. marnob

    marnob Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2014
    Location:
    Gold Coast, Australia
    Car(s):
    Copen L880K 2004
    I sent an email out about the Unichip. The guy said they can't do it coz it has to be hardwired to the car.
    He suggested another company in Brisbane to do it but I haven't followed that up yet.
    I figure this is gonna get very expensive. I might give them a call and just get an idea of the cost?
    Its very annoying. If I could find some hardware/software that will download/upload my ECU file then there are a quite a few companies
    that will remap that original file. Much better as it will suit my car personally not just a one size fits all.
    Of course your Unichip will be matched nicely to your car.
    Here's a question!
    Has anyone out there fitted a D-Sport ECU and noticed a definite power increase or changes from before??
     

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