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D Sport ECU

Discussion in 'Modifications' started by KaneP, Mar 8, 2015.

  1. KaneP

    KaneP Copenworld Newbie

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2014
    Car(s):
    Volvo S40
    Morning guys.

    Go easy on me, this might be a noob question.

    I have been looking to get a bit more shove from my little 660 Copen. I have read that I can't get it remapped without removing the ecu and sending it off to Germany. So I have been searching the Internet and came across this D Sport ecu:

    http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/mono/item/10009168/?s-id=borderless_browsehist_en

    For a similar price to a remap this suggests it will do the job. Does anyone know if it can replace the European ecu as I understand this is different to the Japanese ecu. Is it worth doing? If not what do others suggest instead?

    Hope I can learn from you guys.

    Kane
     
  2. threepot

    threepot Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2014
    Car(s):
    Copen, Hijet, Celica, and Yaris!
    I have seen people say you can't put a jap ecu in a euro copen.

    But I think its probably bullshit.

    There can't be that much difference between them, at most it might be a connector difference, or a sensor, or a slight pinning variation, or an immobiliser coding issue. All pretty easy to overcome.

    I have a DRS ecu in my Avanzato TRXX R4, and it make a massive difference. I would say easily a 25% power increase. Totally transforms the car.

    But the Avanzato, although has the same engine as a copen, it has a different fuel pipe and regulator configuration, which will always limit the power you can get out of a copen.
     
  3. KaneP

    KaneP Copenworld Newbie

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2014
    Car(s):
    Volvo S40
    Thanks for the quick reply threepot!

    I will research if there is a difference which I might be able to overcome.

    That's a big difference you have there! I'd love something similar!

    Are the fuel pipe and regulator things that hold the copen back for getting power? Are these upgradeable do you know?

    Thanks!
     
  4. threepot

    threepot Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2014
    Car(s):
    Copen, Hijet, Celica, and Yaris!
    I think a simple post on a forum is not the way to learn.

    You need to look at this and understand the difference:-

    http://www.aa1car.com/library/returnless_efi.htm

    Then realise that as you increase turbo/boost pressure you need fuel for it.

    The typical "return type" fuel system has a fuel pressure regulator under the bonnet, which increases the fuel pressure as intake air pressure increases. Its approximately 30 psi under tickover vacuum loads, about 50 psi at atmosphere and about 70 psi under 1 bar of boost.

    Once you put an FCD (fuel cut defender which allows you to increase the boost beyond the current engine management cut off limit) onto a vehicle, the ecu will never see the boost its making, so the only thing which manages the air/fuel mixture is the fuel pressure regulator. And it works very well!

    Copens do not have any kind of pressure controlled fuel pressure regulator. The fuel pressure is approximately a constant 45psi. This is why people do not have great results putting bleed valves and FCD's on copens - they do not make power because of the lack of mechanical fuel pressure control.

    Most tinker boy racer DIY meddlers will never realise this, because they do not really understand what they are messing with.
     
    Ludwig likes this.
  5. threepot

    threepot Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2014
    Car(s):
    Copen, Hijet, Celica, and Yaris!
    But to expand,

    -Running a new length of fuel pipe under the vehicle to act as the fuel return pipe
    -Butcher the in tank pump to ditch the regulator and feed the return pipe back in to the tank.
    -Modify the fuel rail to connect to the new fuel return pipe and a fuel pressure regulator, probably has a blanking plate at one end anyway.
    -wire in an FCD to the map sensor
    -fit some kind of bleed valve

    Just add the typical crappy cone filter intake system.
    A custom downpipe and exhaust system.
    And a dump valve for entertainment purposes.

    Now we have a butch Copen which will beat loads of stuff from the traffic lights.

    I bet you will see the best part of 100bhp out of a little 660cc copen.
     
    gotboost? likes this.
  6. stickypinkyfinger

    stickypinkyfinger Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2014
    Location:
    Buckinghamshire
    Car(s):
    Widearch Daihatsu Copen R
    Race tuned Dinli 450 RS
    Suzuki GSXR600
    Hmmm. Very interesting. I'm going to keep my eyes wide on this one. :eek:
     
  7. stonemanty

    stonemanty Copenworld Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2014
    Car(s):
    Porsche 997 GT3
    Mitsubishi Evo 9 RS
    Copen 660cc
    I've ordered a D Sport ECU and plug set - should get/fit them next week subject to back order at D Sport

    I'll let you know what the outcome is afterwards, if it does as much or more than the pipes and intercooler I'll be v pleased!

    Regards
    Andy
     
  8. triksin

    triksin Copenworld Newbie

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2015
    Car(s):
    Daihatsu cuore L701 1.0
    how did this install go for you i'm interested in buying that same piggyback ecm?
     
  9. Liam Bradshaw

    Liam Bradshaw Copenworld Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2015
    Location:
    Runcorn, UK
    Car(s):
    Copen 659cc turbo
    also wondering if this worked or not before i go down the route of a greddy ultimate piggyback :)
     
  10. stonemanty

    stonemanty Copenworld Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2014
    Car(s):
    Porsche 997 GT3
    Mitsubishi Evo 9 RS
    Copen 660cc
    The ECU is dead easy to fit and works OK.

    I can't rave about it as the results are not straightforward.

    There's definitely more urge throughout the rev range and it seems quicker to kick down (auto). 0-60 (100kmh) is improved by around 1 second ish - similar to what I achieved with the D Sport filter, intake pipe and intercooler. With normal driving I estimate I'm getting around 10-15% better fuel economy...

    However, everything now happens on 1/4 throttle. Pressing any further makes no change in performance - but it guzzles fuel like me drinking beer at a free bar. What that means is around 2-3 times more fuel, you can see the needle's dropped after each trial 0-60 run. It's shockingly bad.

    Day to day I like it; hills, traffic etc are far easier to navigate. Now I'm used to the throttle I get slightly better mileage together with the extra go

    Note, I had to keep my Magic Tank (see other post) as the turbo surge made it impossible to drive - reinstated it drives normally. Whether this is unique to my car I don't know, but I really think I now need to install a boost gauge in order to establish what pressure it's working at and to ensure I'm not over stressing it.

    On balance I think it was OK value, but I thought the plumbing mentioned above was better VFM. I think my expectations were a bit high which perhaps has jaded my view.

    Would I buy it based on what I know now? Probably not, to be honest. If I didn't already have the Magic Tank I'd either have an ECU for sale (like new...), or I'd be in a garage paying someone to make it work.

    Even now, after several weeks of trouble free running, I have boost anxiety which takes the edge off the driving and it means more time and money are required.

    Having said that, of course I'm secretly hoping I'm only running 3/4 bar and I can crank it up, without causing a new fuel shortage

    Regards
    Andy
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2015
  11. Liam Bradshaw

    Liam Bradshaw Copenworld Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2015
    Location:
    Runcorn, UK
    Car(s):
    Copen 659cc turbo
    So probably not worth getting then and going with a piggyback? I've already got a boost controller and I'm running .64 of a bar right up to the limiter not wanting to turn it up until I can get something to sort the air and fuelling ratios out properly :)
     
  12. Number6

    Number6 Inactive User

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2013
    Location:
    Dublin
    Car(s):
    2005 0.7L Copen
    Sorry to go off topic, but the Copen has a limiter? What type (rev, speed, boost), because I've yet to encounter it :)
     
  13. Liam Bradshaw

    Liam Bradshaw Copenworld Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2015
    Location:
    Runcorn, UK
    Car(s):
    Copen 659cc turbo
    Well when I say limiter I mean where the Rev counter turns red. I don't fancy seeing if it will go past that :')
     
  14. stonemanty

    stonemanty Copenworld Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2014
    Car(s):
    Porsche 997 GT3
    Mitsubishi Evo 9 RS
    Copen 660cc
    Liam - you mean the standard engine rev limiter, I guess? They are normal on pretty much all cars and prevent engine damage caused by over revving (i.e. from staying on the power, they can't prevent over revving by dropping down a gear too soon) but even though it may be part of the ECU logic it serves a different purpose from over-boost protection.

    Before I really understood what the Magic Tank was I (naively) messed about with its adjustment screw. The limiter I subsequently discovered was the stock ECU cutting the ignition to prevent over-boost damaging the engine. This was happening well short of the Rev limiter. Once I dialled the screw back again it was fine and drove normally. Since I've added the D Sport ECU and replaced the Magic Tank I've not touched the latter - I'm going to take the advice offered here and fit a boost gauge first. Once that is in place I'll be able to see what boost I'm currently getting and see if there is any leeway to increase it to a relatively safe level.

    With that done, I should be able to properly comment on how good an upgrade it is - as above, currently I think it was a worthwhile but not amazing change.

    As for whether a piggy back would be any better - can't comment I'm afraid.
    regards
    Andy
     
  15. ilain

    ilain Copenworld Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2013
    Car(s):
    Daihatsu Copen
    Hey there Liam! When I first got my car, I also installed an electronic boost con without any piggy back system. I was able to safely run 0.9bar without any other tuning as recommended by my workshop. The car comes with a speed cut and boost cut. At stock, the speed cut is at around 135km/h - 140km/h and the boost cut is at around 1bar.

    I'm currently using the Unichip Q as a piggyback to the ecu and I'm still running 0.9bar of boost. But with tuning, i get better torque and slightly better high end power. Some piggyback system (such as the Greddy Emanage Ultimate) allows you to override the speed cut and the boost cut. Unfortunately the Unichip Q does not.
     
  16. jez77

    jez77 Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    Location:
    Brisbane Australia
    Car(s):
    2003 Daihatsu Copen
    2000 Toyota RAV4
    I've been trying to get a Unichip Q fitted to my Copen without luck so far.
    Apparently no one in Australia has done one and they don't know if they can make it work.
    I've got some Emails out to some of the International suppliers to try to get some help for my local installer.
    Who installed yours ilian? Is yours a Jap spec motor?

    My other option is the D-sport ECU. Does anyone know if it is reprogramable?

    Been looking at Greddy too but it's very uncommon in Australia too.
     
  17. Brian S

    Brian S Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2018
    Location:
    Canberra, Australia
    Car(s):
    Dec 2003 659cc silver Copen. Boost controller, cold air, 2" exhaust, underglow etc.,
    My bike is a 2016 Suzuki Maxi with Malossi Variator, straight through exhaust etc.
    Hi Je77.

    I know this is now an historic thread but I wondered how the Unichip Q thing worked out? Did you get anything out of it & how's it getting on with your engine? Also where you got it, how much it was, how much to install it & who did it for you.

    I checked on the D Sport ECU at Nengun but after seeing the price ($1,125) & taking a few deep breaths I noticed that it is now 'discontinued'.
    The thread on a DIY manual boost controller is giving me nosebleed now. Someone says one thing, then another says ' nup, won' t work' etc. I did visit Dyno-Tune & the guy there basically said 'don't do it, you'll over-stress the engine'.
    So now I'm confused as hell. Any news & advice would be appreciated mate.
    Thanks, Brian
    PS: On the upside, I'm very happy with my simple 'vent to atmosphere' mod for the blow-off valve. Sometimes I deliberately back off the throttle just to hear that turbo 'whooooosh'!
     
  18. marnob

    marnob Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2014
    Location:
    Gold Coast, Australia
    Car(s):
    Copen L880K 2004
    You can do what I did and put a manual boost controller on it and tune it yourself to fuel cut, then back it off a notch.
    That works fine and will make a huge difference in power.
    Wont hurt the engine at all as putting a D-Sport ECU on it will bring it up to 1bar anyway and the standard ECU will adjust itself.
    The D-Sport or Unichip get very similar results I was told by another copen owner. The difference is in the price as Unichip is expensive, although the D-Sports are up there now also, around 60k yen.
    The other thing is D-Sports are not piggy back ECU's.
    I have decided to get one so it will be interesting to see how it compares with the power I have now with the MBC and some intake and exhaust mods I have already done.
    Mine pulls really well from 3k onwards and is showing around 10psi but I am not sure if the boost source for the gauge is in the right place.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2020
  19. Brian S

    Brian S Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2018
    Location:
    Canberra, Australia
    Car(s):
    Dec 2003 659cc silver Copen. Boost controller, cold air, 2" exhaust, underglow etc.,
    My bike is a 2016 Suzuki Maxi with Malossi Variator, straight through exhaust etc.
    Hi,

    I've looked into all this before, as Marnob knows! I'd go with his advice.
    First I put in a straight through 2"exhaust & fitted a direct cone air intake to replace the horrible OEM one. This all helped.
    Much cheaper than fitting a D-Sport ECU is to install a manual boost controller then set it to around 15psi.
    I've installed a TurboSmart & on the Dyno, power went up 25% before & after.
    Cost, including supply, fit & dyno was just AUD $275.
    Get your tuner to just keep clicking it up until the engine starts to complain.
    That's around 15psi, from 9.8 standard. There's no knock at 15psi so you won't damage the engine with pre-detonation.

    Now the engine just feels right, not like I'm strangling a cat every time I push the loud pedal.
    The turbo now starts to feel just a bit sooner, at 3k where before it was more like 3300.
    With the TurboSmart I use less throttle.
    Because I can now change up at 4,100 RPM & still be on turbo when I land fuel economy only goes up when I use the extra power a bit much.

    Anyway, I'd say try the manual boost controller before spending big on the D-Sport.
    You'll be amazed at the difference.

    Cheers, Brian
     
  20. Brian S

    Brian S Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2018
    Location:
    Canberra, Australia
    Car(s):
    Dec 2003 659cc silver Copen. Boost controller, cold air, 2" exhaust, underglow etc.,
    My bike is a 2016 Suzuki Maxi with Malossi Variator, straight through exhaust etc.
    __________________________________
    Hi Marnob,

    I also told him on this ancient thread to go with the MCB, have a look when you have time.
    I still think it was the best value power mod I've ever done.
    Also, I've learned how to drive to stop her drinking like she's got a goon.
    Please keep me posted on the D-Sport experiment, I'm really interested.

    I've been trying to source a rocker cover gasket set for my next service without any luck.
    Do you have any ideas?
    Cheers, Brian
    BTW, just to humour me, disconnect the 'vent to turbo' pipe & let it vent to atmo, huh? Then give her some revs & have a listen when you back off. With a tiny twin scroll turbo & an MCB, lag does not exist. Meaning you don't need a blow-off valve to get that ángry rex' noise I'm so addicted to. Consider it a Christmas present to me if you do try it! :D
    PS: Saying "I know what it will sound like" doesn't count mate!
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2020

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