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Seat Belts

Discussion in 'Problems, Fixes, Tips...' started by RachiiR00, Jan 30, 2014.

  1. RachiiR00

    RachiiR00 Copenworld Newbie

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2014
    Car(s):
    Daihatsu Copen
    Hi All,

    Still loving my little red noddy car, Davey!
    Although, I'm getting a little frustrated with the seat belts. They don't seem to be retracting very well :(
    This can be really annoying, as sometimes I go to shut the door and it shuts on the seat belt.

    Any tips?!

    Rachael
     
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  2. dsb

    dsb Copenworld Regular

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    May 15, 2013
    Location:
    abingdon oxfordshire
    Car(s):
    copen vivid
    I've learnt to make sure - when I got mine I had to paint over a chip where the previous owner had slammed the door on the belt.
     
  3. inaka_rob

    inaka_rob Copenworld Newbie

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Car(s):
    2003 Copen
    My car does this too. On had it for two days.
    Seems you have to take the seat belt asymbly apart and either sand away part of the turning block (?) or add a peice of plastic that is smooth.
    someone else on copen world posted this link.
    Let me know if it works.
    I am also having hella problems with my roof alarm.

    http://copenclub.forumprod.com/des-ceintures-qui-reviennent-bien-t164.html
     
  4. Nedryerson

    Nedryerson Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2012
    Copenistas,

    Regarding the seat belts are we saying there is no point in say, accessing and overhauling the retraction mechanisms as the problem lies in the guides which are fixed to the sides of the seats?

    I have a similar problem with my Hoover power cord and it is possible to have the retractor replaced with one with a stronger spring.

    Surely, Diahatsu read this forum and are aware of the problems owners are having ? Has the guide ever been redesigned on later models ?


    I just need to know where to start !

    Ned
     
  5. DaG

    DaG Copenworld Guru

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    Location:
    Sunderland
    Car(s):
    Copen 1.3
    Daihatsu do know there is a problem and really it should have been a recall as its safety related.

    If you access the belt reel behind the seats you'll find that the problem isn't the retraction mechanism, the mechanism works and pulls back the belt fine. The problem is the belt turns through 90 degrees behind the seat through a bolted guide and it snags against this guide. I've massively improved mine wth a simple bit of work I can now feel it pulling into my chest when I drive.

    There is a couple of threads on here with pictures, I'll add what I've done onto one of those threads as I didn't take any pictures.

    What I did took less than an hour and that included a 15 minute search for a missing 14mm socket. I didn't swear though.:)
     
  6. trustafox

    trustafox Copenworld Guru

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    Nov 19, 2012
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    East Mids
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    Yeah don't we know about it , yadda yadda yadda :(

    I thought those gadgets were just a gimmick. To be pulling on your chest that must be some inch gain :eek:

    Why do you have to add to those threads because you didn't take photos? Are there threads that only allow photos! :p Are springs to mind.

    Was it found again? :think:

    Safety safety safety..........more bean cans I say :)
     
  7. DaG

    DaG Copenworld Guru

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    It's easier to explain with pictures.
    I'll ignore your other sarcastic comments.:mad:
    Actually I had another 14mm socket but as I wanted to use my hardly used Britool socket set I was well pissed off when I found it was missing. Yes I did find it thanks for your genuine concern.:rolleyes::D
     
  8. Nedryerson

    Nedryerson Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2012
    Gents, please !

    So the French owners pictures start to make some sense. There is a further guide which is hidden and which introduces additional friction which the retractor is insufficiently powerful overcome and this is why they were fitting some kind of shiny plastic to the guide or did they just sandpaper it ?

    It's true about odd size sockets and spanner sets they never seem to have as standard 14mm or the size for the big bolts that fix the calipers.

    With this new insight I will revisit the French photos again and start planning the campaign. Additional photos most welcome.

    Ned
     
  9. trustafox

    trustafox Copenworld Guru

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    East Mids
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    Had your good lady borrowed your Britool? Have a look in the sewing basket, flower arranging kit or next to the washing up liquid.

    Alternatively, the alarm box hasn't been visited in a long time :)
     
  10. DaG

    DaG Copenworld Guru

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    I didn't get as far as needing tools for the alarm. Opened the box, took the siren out, had a look under bonnet, put siren back in box.:(
    I found the socket in a box of spanners, don't know how it got there.


    Yes I know I must have put it there.
     
  11. DaG

    DaG Copenworld Guru

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    I'll post here what I did to improve retraction though it's not exactly groundbreaking. I was going to do what Adam did on one of his threads using a mobile phone screen cover but I didn't have one. I've read about other cars having retraction problems and improvements have been made by sanding.

    http://mx5driver.com/thread/1852/mk3-seat-belt-guides

    The seatbelt passes through a buckle behind the rear seat hidden behind a plastic trim. It then emerges through a slot behind the seat which is easy to see.

    [​IMG]

    I gained access to the buckle by simply gripping the trim that it passes through and pulling it up. It's only clipped on and came up easily. There is no need to remove the wind break from the roll over hoops.
    It's the trim which the rollover hoop passes through though you have to grip it on its outer end where the small rear window passes through it

    [​IMG]

    Having lifted the trim there is more than enough room to get a 14mm spanner or socket in to undo the bolt which secures the buckle.

    [​IMG]

    The buckles bolt, washer and spacer are held by a tooth lock washer so you don't have to completely remove them. If you do remove them make a note of their order.
    You can now pull the belt and buckle clear of the car to work on the buckle.

    I cut a strip of 360 grit wet and dry the same width as the buckle and passed it between the belt and buckle. I spent 5 minutes or so sanding the buckles plastic where the belt passes over it. I then cut a strip of 1200 grit wet and dry and repeated the sanding.

    [​IMG]

    I used those grits because I has them lying around and I probably didn't need to to use the coarser 360 grit before the 1200.

    I then cleaned the buckle and put it all back together. There is a rubber like ring at the bottom of the rollover hoop which had lifted up but just pushes back down lining the tag on the ring with the slot in the trim. It's self explanatory once you take it apart.

    The belt retracted significantly better than before I did this but I improved it more by cleaning the belt. I dipped it in a bowl of near boiling water with some soap powder in and cleaned it with a nail brush. I then rinsed it a couple of times to remove any soap.

    My wife's car is 3 years old and I noticed her seatbelts are much more pliant and felt softer. After cleaning mine they felt much better and again retraction improved. I can now lean forward then sit back and the belt follows me. It's definitely tighter across my chest.

    I'm going to get some silicone spray to spray onto the buckle to see if that improves things further. Rather than just spray it through the slot in the rear bulk head I'll spray it directly onto the buckle by again lifting the trim.
     
  12. trustafox

    trustafox Copenworld Guru

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    He has a hand! DaG has been seen. :)
    The thing that surprised me was that the fingernails didn't have nail varnish on! :D

    Will we get an understandable write up soon? :think:
     
  13. DaG

    DaG Copenworld Guru

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    Ok I'll do it again and seriously dumb down just for you.

    Which bit could you not understand?

    Edit: Just realised I didn't mention you should put the roof down before starting. Opening a door and pushing the seat forward makes it easier as well. Hope that helps.:rolleyes:
     
  14. trustafox

    trustafox Copenworld Guru

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    See!, which I had a head shaking smilies.

    I got confused because it didn't start "Once upon a time.."
     
  15. DaG

    DaG Copenworld Guru

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    All it is is - pull the trim on top of the rear bulkhead up, undo the seatbelt buckle guide with a 14mm spanner, sand the plastic on the buckle where the belt passes over it with fine grit wet and dry then put it all back together.
    Give the belt a good clean in hot soapy water and maybe put some silicone lubricant onto the buckle after doing all this.

    Talking of once upon a time.
    I will do a simplified ABC children's version, but being as only a moron couldn't understand the one above you'll be the only one who needs it. I'll PM you a copy.:D :p
     
  16. trustafox

    trustafox Copenworld Guru

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    .......I'm still waiting..... are you struggling to write it! :p
     
  17. alidara

    alidara Copenworld Newbie

    Joined:
    May 4, 2014
    Location:
    London
    Car(s):
    Daihatsu copen 1.3 2008
    Cure for seat belt sticking from French Forum

    I have translated the instruction for the solution on French Forum

    http://copenclub.forumprod.com/des-ceintures-qui-reviennent-bien-t164.html



    First, the tools, you will need a cutter, a spanner size 14, a piece of emery cloth width of a belt and incidentally a silicone spray, but this is not mandatory:





    Move the 2 rubber rings up on the chrome frame.



    Dislodge the cover and hold it in high position with a piece of cloth.



    You can now loosen the belt guide with te spanner and this is where we see that there is barely room for the belt to slide in this guide. see below the area marked with arrows.



    Now push the the piece of emery cloth between the guide and the belt: it will serve to protect the finish and then the belt.



    Use the cutter to remove 2 to 3mm of the plastic in the inside as below.


    This operation is completed, Pull back the belt holding the emery cloth with both hands and make movements back and forth to refine the work and remove burrs



    If you have the silicone spray, spray both sides of the whole belt. (it does not stain)



    We can now replace the belt guide, removing the washer below (with the washer, the belt is too high and also catches under the trim ring).



    Replace the final cover and test the result ...




    Denis / Mimi
     
  18. trustafox

    trustafox Copenworld Guru

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    The other task I decided to do today while I could be outside in the glorious sun was a seat belt return modification improved glidematic performance.
    We've had DaG work out , perform and validate a procedure then write up a clear, concise yet professional guide.
    Today I decide to follow that guide and to find out for myself if there is any improvement. I'll add now that I do not know if its improved the retractation as I didn't give it a go :think:. I'm waiting for tomorrow when I drive to work to give it a real world test.

    I say I followed DaG's guide, but not exactly. Here is how it went:

    I removed the parts to gain access but left the belt in place. I had the dexterity not to need to remove it. I started with a 600 grit wet and dry. After this I thought it still had some texture to it so decide to go for the coarsest in my pack, a 400. Then back to the 600. An 800, a 1000 and then a DaG equalling 1200 grit. I only spent like a minute with each.
    But this is the point I took it up a level.........or 3! :cool: I went for an eye widening 1500 :), then a jaw dropping 2000 :D and then.......pulled out the mind numbing 2500 grit. :eek: The top sheet in my pack and set about rubbing it.
    But I wasn't done there, no by jiminy I wasn't. I cut a square of plastic bag and fed that into the guide to cover/protect the seatbelt. Then I had an old bed sheet in the garage so cut off a piece as you need thin material for this and that was just right :). I wet it thoroughly and slide that into place also. Then I squirted, some Meguiar's Plast RX on to the bed sheet rag and like with the wet and dry rubbed the guide with a piston like rhythm. Did a second dollop of RX. And that was it. Time will tell. Photo attached.

    At this point I'll add that during the reconstruction of the parts, I noticed that the trim hadn't pulled one of the white plastic clips out with it. This was quite easy to get out but then Bo Jangles and it leaped inside the body panels! :mad: :eek: Thats the last I'll see of that I thought and I bet it rattles around and irritates me. Well I got my one eye and peered down the abyss. Wow I could actually see it sitting at the bottom below the quarter light window. Ideas began to flash in my head. So I rushed to get a length of thin can and a cut a square or double sided tape which I affixed to the top of the cane in error :rolleyes: A minute or so later I could see the clip was attached to my seeker; slowly and carefully I lifted it out. Hooray :D
     

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  19. DaG

    DaG Copenworld Guru

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    PMSL at that guide Foxy.
    A piston like rhythm, what!!!:eek: I bet that's the first time you've moved anything like a piston.:D
    2500 grit, wow, wish I'd had the bottle to go that fine. Sadly my nerve gave out at 1200, 2500 is ground breaking stuff.
    Nice one you've pushed back the frontiers of sanding seat belt guides. No doubt sometime in the future somebody will go down to 3000 grit maybe even finer but we'll always remember the first, the pioneer of fine belt buckle sanding. I salute you.:D

    Just noticed the French version. Trust the Frenchies to do better photos than mine. :mad:
    I'm not sure about removing 2 - 3 mm of the plastic though, might take a very long time with sandpaper.

    I would still undo the buckles bolt with a 14mm spanner. You can then pull the buckle far enough away from the car to mount it in a workmate. This allows you put some back into it and get that piston like rhythm really going.:cool:
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2014
  20. trustafox

    trustafox Copenworld Guru

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    the 2500 doesn't come in a bottle! this guy knows nothing :think::think:

    Yes removing and clamping securely would have helped.....some. But seeing as I'm utterly fantastic as doing it while in the car, I didn't need to. :D

    And you'd still undo the 14mm bolt with a 14mm spanner, no s**t. Not wanting to spice it up with one that doesn't fit? :p
     
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