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Roof/Boot Mechanism/System Not Working

Discussion in 'Problems, Fixes, Tips...' started by Klausanta, Jan 3, 2014.

  1. Klausanta

    Klausanta Copenworld Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2012
    Location:
    Surrey
    Car(s):
    Renault Megane
    Help!

    I have now got myself in a real mess with the Copen roof/boot mechanism/system.

    I have always had a problem whereby the red roof indicator/warning light intermittently keeps going on/off as if a sensor somewhere is just not quite making contact correctly. This normally happens in the winter and clears in the summer when the roof is open/closed more often but I have also never resolved an issue where the left hand side of the boot does not latch down fully and I have to open/close the roof a few inches a couple of times before it finally latches home correctly. Anyway, I put the red light flashing down to winter condensation in the boot (even after replacing the rear brake light assembly with a brand new unit and seal) as my boot area is still soaking wet and the boot lid drips constantly (I also have those condensation things in the front and boot of the car).

    Anyway, earlier this week my wife tried to open the boot but it would not operate from the button inside or key fob and as she had placed a very expensive photograph in the boot that needed to be removed before the condensation destroyed it, I started to mess about with every button I could find (in fairness it was late, dark, cold and hammering it down with rain).

    So, I undid the two roof catches and pressed the button to make the roof open and the operation started normally – the passenger window started to go down etc. At that point I panicked as I suddenly thought about what would happen if I could not get the roof back up again!. So I pressed the button to go the other way and got myself in a real mess. I think that the roof was still open slightly and had not closed correctly when I clipped back up the roof catches (although they clipped home okay) and now the system thinks that the roof is open so nothing works. I took the car for a run to see if anything would clear, and noticed that the red roof indicator/warning light was now constantly on and as soon as I moved, the car started a very fast bleeping/warning noise that was driving me mad. However, while I was driving, I pressed the internal boot release button and heard a pop and the boot actually opened so I managed to get everything out of the boot. I also managed to open the boot one time again this morning using the internal boot release button (while driving) but it was hammering it down again so I had no option other than to close it.

    So, in conclusion, the red roof indicator/warning light is constantly on, there is a fast bleeping/warning noise as soon as I move and the boot and roof do not operate. I think I need to manually close the roof mechanism correctly in order to reset the system.

    Any ideas on how I can do this please?

    Many thanks in advance

    KS
     
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  2. Adam K

    Adam K Copenworld Guru

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2010
    Location:
    Worcester, UK
    Car(s):
    Nissan Cube Kaizen
    The instructions on how to manually operate the roof are in the owners handbook.
    If you don't have one, you can download the manual for the 1.3 Copen in the directory section.
     
  3. DaG

    DaG Copenworld Guru

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2012
    Location:
    Sunderland
    Car(s):
    Copen 1.3
  4. dunf

    dunf Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2013
    Location:
    Fife, Scotland
    Car(s):
    copen
    Might be worth giving all the micro switches a wee 'dunt'. Both top roof latches and the boot partition switch at least. Sometimes they just stick a bit.
     
  5. PauliePaul

    PauliePaul Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2012
    Location:
    Bedford
    im just having a guess but maybe taking the battery off could reset it ?
     
  6. Klausanta

    Klausanta Copenworld Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2012
    Location:
    Surrey
    Car(s):
    Renault Megane
    Many thanks for your replies but I am still no nearer resolving the problem. I do have the owners handbook and my own set of large red workshop manuals (purchased from eBay) but I find them almost impossible to follow. They seem to be a very bad translation of poor quality text and are only really any good if you know what you are doing in the first place. Also, if I understand the instructions correctly, the procedure shown (owners handbook 10-24) is how to raise the roof manually rather than lowering the roof as I wanted to do.

    After driving around for a day with the red warning light constantly on and the warning bleeps (ajar chime) ringing in my ears, I pressed the boot release button and it popped open. As usual it was pouring with rain (and it was also dark), so I secured the boot with gaffer tape (not locked into place) so that I could take a look the next day without having to manually try and open the boot. One thing I could see was that the boot was completely full of water again, not just a drip of condensation, but I would estimate a large bucket full so I removed the rubber bung by the tools to drain that area and used some towels to soak up as much of the remaining water as I could. When I started driving again, although the boot was actually open, the red light had gone out and the warning bleeps stopped.

    Now armed with a new roll of gaffer tape, I completely covered the brake light assembly so as far as I could see it would be impossible for water to get in via this area (looks rather strange but never mind for now). I also added some dry towels and plastic sheeting to try and dry the boot out. I think that whatever happens from now on, I need to find out once and for all where the water is getting in as this can’t be good for all the electronics in the boot.

    The following day during a break in the awful weather and with the help of one of my sons, I removed the gaffer tape securing the boot and pulled on the two lugs with the special wires. I then got the whole boot completely stuck in a flat position being neither up or down or locked in front or back. In yet another panic moment I tried the automatic roof up/down switch in the car and everything started to work automatically again albeit a little hesitant. I then put the roof down fully and the system reset and locked into place exactly as it should do.

    I drove the car around the block and everything seemed fine and when I returned I automatically raised the roof and again everything reset and locked into place. I then tried opening the boot using the internal button and the remote control and again that worked perfectly too. Feeling very pleased with myself, I went inside and had a cup of tea but my joy was very short lived.

    When I came out about ten minutes later and started the Copen, the red warning light immediately came on again and off I drove to the beat of the warning bleeper with everything inoperable once more!

    KS
     
  7. Adam K

    Adam K Copenworld Guru

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2010
    Location:
    Worcester, UK
    Car(s):
    Nissan Cube Kaizen
    Perhaps the Roof ECU in the boot is playing up from being damp?
     
  8. Klausanta

    Klausanta Copenworld Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2012
    Location:
    Surrey
    Car(s):
    Renault Megane
    I am still working on drying out the boot Adam and as soon as it stops raining for more than an hour I will remove the ECU and have a closer look although on initial inspection it does actually seem completely dry (I had a clean rag protecting it).

    I think I have now sorted the warning bleeping noise which may have been caused by the boot lock mechanism (hopefully). Yesterday, I removed the panel in the console box to gain access to the manual boot release wire/handle as I wanted to check/confirm my understating on how to open the boot manually (pulling this handle on its own and/or as well as the two internal blue handles accessed under the package tray). I gave a tug both ways and the red warning light went out and everything was operational again. I put the roof up and down and opened the boot a couple of times and everything seemed fine. However, when I left work that evening the red light was back on and I drove home yet again with the bleeping noise ringing out non-stop.

    Later when I got home, I had another play with the boot release wire/handle and remembered reading in the owner’s manual ‘return the pulled wire by hand’. So I pulled the wire towards the front of the car as far as I could and then fiddled with the wire/handle until it went all the way back the other way – the handle went much further back than it had been (there was less wire visible). As soon as the wire fed back, there was a bleep, the red warning light went out and again everything was back to normal.

    I am pleased and relieved to say that everything was still okay this morning so fingers crossed (I did still had the red warning light coming on intermittently while driving but no bleeping).

    So my plan of action is now to dry out the car, check/lubricate the boot lock mechanism and dry/check/clean all the boot/roof sensors. I also think that the intermittent red warning light may be due to the hand brake sensor needing attention so I will look at that too.

    KS
     
  9. Runners

    Runners Copenworld Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2013
    Location:
    Essex
    Car(s):
    Daihatsu Copen, Series 1 Mazda RX7
    I had similar issues when I first had my Copen, this thread gives a bit of info of what I tried. But if your boot had that much water in it, I'd be surprised if it's not the ECU. The ECU may even need a reset if the system is confused as to if the roof is open or not. I've also found that the little adjusters on the roof latches can also convince the sensors that the roof is open if they are screwed all the way down.
     
  10. Klausanta

    Klausanta Copenworld Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2012
    Location:
    Surrey
    Car(s):
    Renault Megane
    Hi

    Help again? Can anybody tell me what should happen in a way I can understand with reference to the operators manual section 10-20?

    I needed to manually open the boot to try and re-set everything as the red light and bleeping noise started again. Stages 1, 2, 3 and 4 were completed and the boot opened manually without a problem. However, I wanted the boot to open from the front as if the roof was opening/closing as this normally allows me to get back to normal and for the electrics to start working again.

    So, I went on to section 10-27 and completed stages 5 and 6.

    Stage 7 then states ‘lower the trunk lid to a position where the lid is floated slightly’. I took this to mean move the boot so that it is open at the front and rear but in a flat position?

    Stage 8 then states ‘open the front side of the trunk lid to such an extent that your arm can be inserted inside’ and then ‘push in the trunk lid, while slowly raising the bottom of the hinge at both sides’ and then ‘push the trunk lid until you can hear a clicking sound’. Well I can’t understand what this all means or what is supposed to happen. Has anyone else got to this point please?

    I can now open the boot/trunk from the front as shown in stage 9 but it is very stiff as it is opening against the dampers and does not open as much as I think it should and I can’t get the front sides to lock back down again so that I can open the boot/trunk from the rear/normal position. I am completely stuck.

    Any ideas/help would be greatly appreciated

    Many thanks

    KS
     
  11. inaka_rob

    inaka_rob Copenworld Newbie

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Car(s):
    2003 Copen
    THIS!! My car does this!

    What is the deal with this.
    I can get the boot to close. Then I notice if I close the passenger door or hit any bump in the road, the left part of the truck pops open. Like the lock on the left hand side comes undone.
    I really wish I could see inside the trunk when it is closed/closing.
    I have look and felt ALL inside. There is no more give to any of the parts from right to left sides. Everything looks identical on both sides.
    It seems the trunk has 3 locks. center like most cars, and then one on the left and right. I think the left one is disengaging. It looks and feels exactly the same as the right. looks brand new still. All greased up.
    I don't know if replacing is possible with out buying the entire assymbly, or even going to fix the problem.

    sadly this is the most expensive used car I have bought (out of 3) and has come with the MOST problems. I really dont want to have to open and close my boot every time I want to open the roof, which is going to be every day on warm sunny days as this car is my daily driver.
     
  12. dunf

    dunf Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2013
    Location:
    Fife, Scotland
    Car(s):
    copen
    Stick a camcorder in the boot on night mode and film it.
     
  13. Adam K

    Adam K Copenworld Guru

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2010
    Location:
    Worcester, UK
    Car(s):
    Nissan Cube Kaizen
    On the underside of the boot lid there should be two blue plastic handle things. Check they are both locked in place correctly. These are the emergency release handles to manual open & close the boot lid to manually operate the roof. Read through the owners manual for manual operation of the roof. That will show where these blue handle things are.
     
  14. Klausanta

    Klausanta Copenworld Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2012
    Location:
    Surrey
    Car(s):
    Renault Megane
    Hi

    If I had £1.00 for each hour I had spent trying to figure the boot/roof mechanism out I would be a rich man.

    In utter desperation I was eventually forced to take our Copen to Kinghams of Croydon as I thought that an ex main Daihatsu dealer (the only one in my geographical area) would be the way forward. How wrong could I have been!

    I will write up my experiences with this so called garage and post it on this forum as a warning to others, but in the meantime, please note carefully, they have not got a clue and their mechanics are not specifically trained on this mechanism, they charge £99.50 per hour and after fleecing my out of £705.60 for labour our Copen is worse than ever.

    However, I have learnt a couple of things that may help you.

    Look at the service manual page I5-45. If you short the two pins on the diagnostic connector as shown the roof warning light will give you a series of flashes that indicate a warning message that relates to the list on page I5-47. This might point you in the right direction although I understand from the Kinghams mechanic that this is not very accurate.

    The problem with the warning light being constantly on with that awful bleeping is likely to be caused by the boot lock mechanism in the middle of the boot rather than the sensors on each side. Check that the connectors to the motor have not got wet and corroded as they sit near the boot well where the water builds up and that the mechanism is fully lubricated. Also see I5-22 and remove the bottom cover in the console box and check that the emergency trunk lid opener is pushed back correctly (towards the back of the car). If the boot lock mechanism is not operating correctly the roof mechanism does not function correctly either. The boot lid can appear floppy as the mechanism does not set everything in the right position.

    As I said, I will document what happend at Kinghams soon but please all Copen owners (and Daihatsu and any other make they supposedly service) take your car somewhere else!

    KS
     
  15. threepot

    threepot Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2014
    Car(s):
    Copen, Hijet, Celica, and Yaris!
    This is shameless self promotion right here!!! :-

    I run a small business in Congleton, Cheshire. We are called Auto Fault Finder, and we specialise in auto electronics, fault finding and diagnostics.

    I know the copen roof system inside and out! Every sensor, micro switch, actuator - what all the error codes are pointing towards, how to back probe every aspect of the 2 roof ECU's.

    I have a few spare parts which I hang on to for testing purposes. And I can make new hall sensors and recondition the motors.

    The current copen I have in the workshop was a rats nest, as other people have been messing with it, and caused more problems. But it now works beautifully again. They had not put wires back in the right places on the ECU connectors, they had burnt out the roof ecu, and burnt out the hall sensor in the side latch motor........ where the original actual cause of the roof failing was the micro switch on the parcel shelf!

    So sorry for this "advertisement" but if you do need some to look at your roof then you would be totally welcome, as I truly love Daihatsu's, and love electronic system. So where better could you take a copen with a roof problem!

    http://www.autofaultfinder.com
     
    barry singer likes this.
  16. mattautolec

    mattautolec Copenworld Newbie

    Joined:
    May 22, 2015
    Car(s):
    copen
    180sx
    rodeo
    Sorry to resurrect an old thread,
    does any body know what sort of reading i should be getting from the rear center boot lock?
    is it just an on off or is it a potentiometer voltage change?
     
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