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my copen is dieing and needs a engine trasplant i think :(

Discussion in 'Problems, Fixes, Tips...' started by superspat, Jan 14, 2015.

  1. superspat

    superspat Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2014
    Location:
    borunemouth
    Car(s):
    ford cmax
    daihatsu copen
    so most you of will of noticed my copen build thread has not been updated in long time, this is becasue she is very ill :(

    it all started when fitting the new hybrid changing oil and letting her sit in the garage for a month or 2. I went through a number of new turbos as the baring's kept dyeing from oil contamination.
    I gave her a fresh oil change and filter before fitting the latest hybrid turbo which when on all ok.
    then after a mile down the road she started to smoke when on the throttle. I took her back home to check every thing was ok and all looked ok, left her to idle for a hour and no smoke but as soon as got the throttle she was smoking and has been like it every since. here are a run down of symptoms

    smokes when started a tiny bit then runs clear intill revs drop to normal idle
    still idles fine and no smoke,
    soon as any throttle is give she starts to smoke and when on boost is really dumps a lot of smoke
    pulled plugs and cylinder 1,2,3 all have pooling oil on top of pistons and plugs and dripping with oil
    if left for 3/4 days oil vanishes and piston tops are dry
    ran a compression test when oil has drained its self away
    1-170
    2-169
    3-170
    4-161

    so every thing seams ok on the compression test, also tested the PVC valve and removed that just to rule it out and still smoke, she runs perfect apart from a slight miss fire at around 4k but im putting that down to oil on the spark plugs

    im a bit stuck as were to go from here, going to remove inlet manifold to check for oil on valves but not sure wether to get a engine rebuild kit and head kit for rebuild or just get another jb-det engine to drop in

    or if any 1 has any ideas of were the oil is coming from that would be helpful, I first thought the stem seals but its got worse as it started out just 2 pistons getting wet now its 3and what ever has happened has happened while sat in the garage after a oil change and new turbo fitted
     
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  2. threepot

    threepot Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2014
    Car(s):
    Copen, Hijet, Celica, and Yaris!
    I know you disagree - as per our facebook conversations.

    But I bet you its not the engine itself. e.g. rings, block, head, valves, seals etc
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2015
  3. Binz

    Binz Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2012
    Location:
    North Hampshire
    Car(s):
    Copen (plus Suzuki VanVan and Honda CRV)
    a couple of things
    1) when you say the oil vanishes and the piston tops are dry, I assume that is with the engine just stationary. In which case that suggests it maybe wasn't engine oil as I wouldn't expect engine oil to evaporate like that (test, put some engine oil on a bit of metal and see if it's still there in a few days). Not having seen the piston tops I don't know if they are a shape that would simply drain the oil away. Could the 'oil' be a mix of fuel and gunk, which vanishes once the fuel evaporates?
    2) what colour is the smoke, is it the typical blue smoke you get when cars are burning oil?
     
  4. superspat

    superspat Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2014
    Location:
    borunemouth
    Car(s):
    ford cmax
    daihatsu copen
    threepot im starting to think that as well, im starting to feel it could be fuelling issues or massive bottom end pressure


    1.yes the car is sat in the garage when piston dries out, its still shiny and damp but the 3/4mm of oily stuff has gone
    2. deff burning oil, had enough turbos over the past 10 years die on me to know when its burning oil
     
  5. threepot

    threepot Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2014
    Car(s):
    Copen, Hijet, Celica, and Yaris!
    If I were you, I would remove the turbo completely. Bung up the oil feed pipe with a bolt and some washers.

    Disconnect any crank breather pipework.

    Drive it round the block sounding like a tractor, and see if you get the same pooling/smoke.
     
  6. superspat

    superspat Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2014
    Location:
    borunemouth
    Car(s):
    ford cmax
    daihatsu copen
    I have already unboltded turbo from the manifold And and ran it, it still pools, I'm thinking it mite be fuel mixed with oil somewhere as it's like it's evaporating out of the pistons when plugs r removed
     
  7. threepot

    threepot Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2014
    Car(s):
    Copen, Hijet, Celica, and Yaris!
    You should be able to tell if its oil or petrol by sucking some up in a syringe.

    And it is highly unlikely to be pools of fuel, as its too hot and moving in there to actually pool.

    When you unbolted it and ran it, was all the boost hoses removed, was the downpipe removed?
     
  8. superspat

    superspat Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2014
    Location:
    borunemouth
    Car(s):
    ford cmax
    daihatsu copen
    all the intercooler pipes were removed and down pipe was removed aswell

    its like its a mixture of oil and fuel as plugs smell like fuel but its a lot thicker than fuel and the liquid is a bit to thin to be just oil, more like a mixture of oil and fuel

    going to try and get the inlet and exhaust manifold off and have a look at the valves to see if they are dripping with oil as running out of ideas with out pulling the head of as I have found a bare block for just over £300 deliverd and weighing up the options as if I can pin point the issue to the head end then will sort it but if I cant pin point it with out removing the head will just swap the engine over which is a risk as don't know the history of the engine
     
  9. threepot

    threepot Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2014
    Car(s):
    Copen, Hijet, Celica, and Yaris!
    So do you have an ignition system problem?
     
  10. superspat

    superspat Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2014
    Location:
    borunemouth
    Car(s):
    ford cmax
    daihatsu copen
    Not sure, I feel it's more than ignition as it idles and drives ok apart from lots of smoke and would of thought the eml light would of popped up if there was electronic fault, gonna try to burn oil off later with a blow torch and totally remove turbo to make it n/a and double check all wireing and blow torch and wire brush the plugs and check ignition system over, if thats all ok, manifolds r coming off
     
  11. threepot

    threepot Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2014
    Car(s):
    Copen, Hijet, Celica, and Yaris!
    Good move.
     
  12. superspat

    superspat Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2014
    Location:
    borunemouth
    Car(s):
    ford cmax
    daihatsu copen
    tried new plugs and double checked every thing electrical, fired her up and smoked on start up like normal and smoked when on the throttle.

    got pissed of so started to strip it down, managed to get inlet manifold of after about 4 hours of trying to access some of the nasty hidden bolts and getting the awfull bottom water pipe out the way

    the inlet had a bit of oil inside it but nothing that stood out and the inlet valves were not dripping in oil

    gonna get exhaust manifold off tommor night and check exhaust valves

    after that im a bit out of my comfort zone and a bit stuck as not got a clue how to remove timing chain armed with the work shop manual I mite try and get it off and get the head off
     
  13. superspat

    superspat Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2014
    Location:
    borunemouth
    Car(s):
    ford cmax
    daihatsu copen
    so my copen is dead, sad times I know but I have slowly pulled it apart it turn out servicing the copen has killed it, the oil change had freed up a lot of hard built up carbon and dropped down in the valves and blocking the piston rings causing oil to creap up past the rings. its nto all bad tho as will be rebuilding her with fresh rings and rebuild and ported and polished head and hopefully rebuild and rolling by april, heres some lovely pictures of the skank in my engine
    exhaust port 2
    [​IMG]

    exhaust port 3
    [​IMG]

    and the now shinyer cams, but in between all the nuts and bolts is lumps of hard sludgy carbon ( its clearny not been service well enough)
    [​IMG]
     
  14. Number6

    Number6 Copenworld Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2013
    Location:
    Dublin
    Car(s):
    2005 0.7L Copen
    Lovely!

    How many miles are / were on the engine, out of interest?
     
  15. superspat

    superspat Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2014
    Location:
    borunemouth
    Car(s):
    ford cmax
    daihatsu copen
    76k will full history (serviced once a year) but that means nothing
     
  16. threepot

    threepot Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2014
    Car(s):
    Copen, Hijet, Celica, and Yaris!
    Pull the slugs out of it and clean the ring lands up.

    Obviously you'll need to take the head off first!
     
  17. superspat

    superspat Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2014
    Location:
    borunemouth
    Car(s):
    ford cmax
    daihatsu copen
    Sticking new rings in it as head will be off, and chemical clean the head, port and polish, reseat valves and full gasket set as it's going to be apart and si it's fresh for new turbo and boost
     
  18. threepot

    threepot Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2014
    Car(s):
    Copen, Hijet, Celica, and Yaris!
    Make sure you measure the ring lands and bore to make sure it is still in spec.
     
  19. superspat

    superspat Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2014
    Location:
    borunemouth
    Car(s):
    ford cmax
    daihatsu copen
    Armed with the work shop manual all painted out will be checking everything thing is with in spec
     
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