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It's not starting, oh wait it is now!

Discussion in 'Problems, Fixes, Tips...' started by TinyTT, Mar 1, 2013.

  1. TinyTT

    TinyTT Copenworld Newbie

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Location:
    Nuneaton
    Car(s):
    59 Copen 1.3
    Hi everyone,

    Having a really annoying problem with my 3 year old Copen. This might be a bit long-winded, but I'll explain what happens on a normal day, then explain what's happening this week:

    1 - Press unlock button on keyfob (Cobra 3 button type), doors unlock
    2 - Put key in ignition, turn to position 2 (where all the warning lights come on). At this point there's an audible 'whirrrrr' from the rear, behind the driver's side. It's always done that so I'm assuming it's normal, it sounds like something is being 'primed' or switched on mechanically. (If I leave it at this point for longer than 30 seconds, nothing happens in the next step and I have to press the unlock button on the remote to disable the immobiliser)
    3 - Turn key further & let go. Starter motor spins, engine starts, happy motoring ensues.

    Now, in the last 7 days I have been having intermittent starting problems:
    1 - Press unlock button on keyfob, doors unlock
    2 - Put key in ignition, turn to position 2. At this point there isn't any whirring noise from the rear - I don't hear a thing.
    3 - Turn key further. Starter motor spins, but engine doesn't fire, happy motoring doesn't ensue. Lights & everything electrical works OK, I can retry several times for several minutes and it still won't fire so I don't think it's a duff battery. If I keep trying every couple of minutes it won't fire, but after 10-15 minutes I hear the familiar whirring sound from the rear and it jumps into life!

    So what do you think? What is the thing making a noise behind the drivers seat, does that have anything to do with it?

    I called the RAC out last Friday and he couldn't get it to start either, but after 15 minutes of trying he got it going, but he doesn't know what he did. We took it to our local garage and left it with them for 5 days, but it started every day first time for them!

    Also (and this may be coincidence) my reversing sensors no longer work. They used to when I engaged reverse, but now they're silent.

    Thanks in advance for any help/advice.
     
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  2. Adam K

    Adam K Copenworld Guru

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2010
    Location:
    Worcester, UK
    Car(s):
    Nissan Cube Kaizen
    I always thought the whirr in the rear was the fuel pump.

    I guess the RAC man checked the battery when he came.

    I wonder if it's a problem with the alarm. The immobiliser isn't turning off, thus not giving power to the fuel pump. Perhaps a visit to an automotive electrician?
     
  3. Rex

    Rex Copenworld Pioneer

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2009
    Location:
    Cardiff
    Car(s):
    Copen
    I agree with Adam,
    Sounds like this is a Cobra immobiliser problem.

    Rex.
     
  4. mia.stu

    mia.stu Copenworld Newbie

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2010
    Yeh, the 'wurrr' is the fuel pump priming the injector rail ready to start.

    This sounds like an immobiliser issue!! If that 'wurrr' dont happen, its getting no fuel.

    I have no advice on how to remove or check it, but that seems like the issue!

    Good luck, id take it to an alarm/electrical specialist if i was you.
     
  5. TinyTT

    TinyTT Copenworld Newbie

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Location:
    Nuneaton
    Car(s):
    59 Copen 1.3
    Update!

    Hi everyone,

    It's been a few weeks since I reported this, so I thought I'd update you on what's happened. When I got it back from the local garage it was fine, and I left it in the car park at the station. Upon returning 8 hours later I was back to the same problem - turning over but not firing. After 15 minutes of trying it sprang into life.

    I left it for a few days more, and then discovered was battery was constantly flat. I could jump start it, and all would be fine, but the next day it was flat again! I booked it into my usual Daihatsu garage (Browns Lane in Coventry) and told them they could have it as long as they wanted!

    They did various tests on the battery and the car. They couldn't find anything that could be draining the battery, and left it on trickle-charge over a weekend. When I got it back it seemed to be back to normal again, and the immobiliser problem was gone too. This was a couple of weeks ago, and I drove the car happily for a week, then left it outside for a week. When I tried it this Monday the battery was completely flat again, so I'm fairly sure the battery is duff.

    Rather than take it back to the garage, I bought a new Bosch battery (from EuroCarParts) and fitted it last night. It's OK this morning, and I hope for many more mornings to come. I'll let you know...!

    Rich
     
  6. PauliePaul

    PauliePaul Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2012
    Location:
    Bedford
    it most probably was the battery... copens do suffer with battery issues id say alot more likely you'd be having these problems in winter when the copen is left and only being used occasionally as i have had battery probs myself before but when you replace for new its all sorted... i wouldnt of thought that this will be a problem in the summer time though no matter how long you leave the copen without driving it
     
  7. TinyTT

    TinyTT Copenworld Newbie

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Location:
    Nuneaton
    Car(s):
    59 Copen 1.3
    Spoke too soon...

    I knew it was too good to last!

    Got into the car this morning to go to work, and the original problem has manifested itself again (turning over but not starting). Called out RAC, who reckon it is an immobiliser fault.

    After the RAC got it going again, I drove straight to the Daihatsu garage and left it with them, telling them they could have it for as long as they want.

    Oh well, back to the drawing board...
     
  8. Binz

    Binz Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2012
    Location:
    North Hampshire
    Car(s):
    Copen (plus Suzuki VanVan and Honda CRV)
    I had an imobiliser fault on previous car (Ibiza). It would turnover and fire up then die immediatly. It was solved by resoldering connections in the dash (the other alternative was new circuit board for dash).
     
  9. Rex

    Rex Copenworld Pioneer

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2009
    Location:
    Cardiff
    Car(s):
    Copen
    Just to add, in my experience never trust thoses 'scotchlok' type connectors. They maybe quick andeasy to install but often cause trouble in the long run.


    [​IMG]
    Rex.
     
  10. TinyTT

    TinyTT Copenworld Newbie

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Location:
    Nuneaton
    Car(s):
    59 Copen 1.3
    Another update

    It's still not right!

    Garage had it for a week and couldn't replicate the fault. Got it home and a couple of days later it wasn't starting again.

    Called RAC again and asked if they could tow me straight to the garage rather than diagnosing the fault. After a very quick diagnosis (he reckoned immobiliser too) he towed me the 10 miles to the garage. When we got there it started!

    Again the garage had it for a few more days, but this time changed a "coil ignition" part (something related to where you put the key in) and charged me £155, saying that it 'wasn't under warranty'. They assured me that this would fix it, but I couldn't start it again this morning.

    So, do I persevere with the garage, who now seem intent on changing bits that apparently aren't under warranty in the hope they'll strike lucky and fix it. Or, do I try an auto-electrician. Or do I rip out the Cobra immobiliser (if it is that). Or, what.... any ideas anyone?! :-((
     
  11. Adam K

    Adam K Copenworld Guru

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2010
    Location:
    Worcester, UK
    Car(s):
    Nissan Cube Kaizen
    Auto-electrician
     
  12. DaG

    DaG Copenworld Guru

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2012
    Location:
    Sunderland
    Car(s):
    Copen 1.3
    If the cobra alarm immobiliser circuit has been fitted then your car has two immobilisers.
    To sell a car in the UK since the late nineties manufacturers have to fit an approved thatcham immobiliser that interrupts at least two circuits. One of the circuits is normally the fuel injection. Your key sends a signal to the cars ECU which then allows the fuel injection circuit to work.
    Aftermarket alarms also have an imobilser circuit, I think the cobra works by stopping the starter motor from turning. The cobra i fitted to a car a few years back worked like that and the clifford alarm that I have for my Copen is the same. They are much simpler than the manufacturers imobilser and easily bypassed wth a bit of wire.
    I wouldnt go ripping the cobra alarm out it is more likely to be the daihatsu immobiliser judging from your description. Have you tried a spare key incase the keys chip is faulty? Otherwise it's a good auto electrician.
     
  13. TinyTT

    TinyTT Copenworld Newbie

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Location:
    Nuneaton
    Car(s):
    59 Copen 1.3
    Hi DaG,

    There is a Cobra immobiliser too, but as you say that prevents the starter motor from turning. It defintely sounds like the Daihatsu immobiliser, as it's always the fuel injection circuit that gets cut off.

    I've got three keys - a black one and two grey keys. I've tried all of them at various points (as have the garage) and it doesn't make any difference which one I try.

    The garage have plugged their diag tester into the car, but that never returns any errors - not sure if the immobiliser would report anything though.

    So, do you (or anyone else) know any good auto-electricians in the Birmingham/Warwickshire area?! :)

    Thanks,

    Rich
     
  14. TinyTT

    TinyTT Copenworld Newbie

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Location:
    Nuneaton
    Car(s):
    59 Copen 1.3
    Well so far so good (I'm sure I've said that before though). Car was at garage for three weeks, eventually they changed the 'crank angle sensor' - they swapped it with one from a similar engine car.

    I've had the car back for two weeks and it's been fine, so hopefully I'll be able to make it to KKITP! :D

    Rich
     
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