1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

CANBus

Discussion in 'Problems, Fixes, Tips...' started by Number6, Jul 30, 2014.

  1. Number6

    Number6 Copenworld Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2013
    Location:
    Dublin
    Car(s):
    2005 0.7L Copen
    Does anyone know if the Copen uses some sort of CANBus for data communications between systems? If so, via the ODB port or somewhere else?

    I know for a fact that with iBus (BMW's proprietary internal comms bus), you can lower the windows when you hit 88MPH and have the radio play the "Back to the Future" theme on CD... as I have done it. In the BMWs case, access to the bus was via where the CD changer would have been in the boot.
     
    data-ad-format="auto">
  2. DaG

    DaG Copenworld Guru

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2012
    Location:
    Sunderland
    Car(s):
    Copen 1.3
    I know that there is an OBD socket under the steering column towards the heater box. If you stick your head under you'll see it looks like a scart socket.
    I've got a cheap OBD scanner and it works fine for code reading on my Copen. Not sure about accessing the system or getting the radio to play the back to the future theme though.:)
     
  3. Number6

    Number6 Copenworld Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2013
    Location:
    Dublin
    Car(s):
    2005 0.7L Copen
    Hey, I've used the ODBII port before, but I'm not 100% too sure if it exposes the CANBUS, or if the Copen even has a CANBUS.
     
  4. trustafox

    trustafox Copenworld Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2012
    Location:
    East Mids
    Car(s):
    Yes
    I was all eyes with this replier's message expecting an informative read. Instead it seem to advise sticking your head under water or something. Stick it under long enough you'll be seeing stars, let alone a scart socket doppelgänger. Then out again came the war stories of the cheap OBD scanner.

    I think I've found the song that plays in DaG's car when he hits 22 mph. :D
     
  5. DaG

    DaG Copenworld Guru

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2012
    Location:
    Sunderland
    Car(s):
    Copen 1.3
    I bet I know the song that plays in your car. Not when you hit a certain speed but every time you get in. That Ivor Biggun classic - He's a w****r he's a w****r
    :D:D
     
  6. trustafox

    trustafox Copenworld Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2012
    Location:
    East Mids
    Car(s):
    Yes
    Well if you want it back, you only have to ask! Even if it being 8 track is a little cutting edge for you. :p
     
  7. Number6

    Number6 Copenworld Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2013
    Location:
    Dublin
    Car(s):
    2005 0.7L Copen
    Moved from a bluetooth to USB to OBD-II adaptor on project ScootyBUS, to get higher throughput. Took a bit of jiggery pokery to send ELM commands on a Mac due to drivers.

    It's proving difficult to set the ELM interface into promiscuous mode - it looks like the ECU the Copen uses doesn't talk on the port unless asked.

    Looking at the wiring diagram, it may be possible to get data from the ICT and Roof ECUs, via a pinout on the ODB2 interface... I'm unsure if it's packet / data based or simple pulses. The service manuals seem to indicate pulses.

    Perhaps an arduino plugged into the bus between the roof and ICT would be better, but I'm not giving up on using the ODB-II port under the dash with commodity hardware.
     
  8. Number6

    Number6 Copenworld Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2013
    Location:
    Dublin
    Car(s):
    2005 0.7L Copen
    After much trying, the ECU can only reply to messages sent via the OBD-II port and does not spam the OBD-II port with bus messages. :mad:
     
  9. Number6

    Number6 Copenworld Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2013
    Location:
    Dublin
    Car(s):
    2005 0.7L Copen
    However, a quick email to a dealer has informed me that a Denso DS II OBD scanner can find not only certain Daihatsu DTCs but also query the roof system.

    I am attempting to find a dealer in Ireland with a DS II scan tool, and sniff his tools transmissions (ohh err!) if he'll let me, or at least see the functionality it provides with the Copen.

    A DS II scan tool costs a stupid amount of money - a chap on ebay is selling one for £1000!
     
  10. Number6

    Number6 Copenworld Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2013
    Location:
    Dublin
    Car(s):
    2005 0.7L Copen
    It appears that the DS-II can open the boot via the OBD-II port. This implies that there is a proper CAN network available.

    I have bought more cables, and will attempt to rewire them to access the CAN+ and CAN- using the ELM327 scanner.
     
  11. Number6

    Number6 Copenworld Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2013
    Location:
    Dublin
    Car(s):
    2005 0.7L Copen
    None of the standard protocols work at getting more info out of the OBD-II port.

    I've done up an OBD-II to Copen pin mapping. Pin 7 is the main pin for K-Line comms with the Copen ( ISO 14230-4 KWP (fast init, 10.4 kbaud) )

    [​IMG]

    I've cables on order. After they arrive, I will swap pins 7 and 13 on my scan tool, and try and sniff the bus as best as I can.

    Since the roof tells the windows to go down, I may be able to capture the codes when I send the roof down... However, the roof ECU and the window ECU are connected via their own bus - so I might need to do something else.


    As a side note, I have contacted every Daihatsu dealer in Ireland (and NI) to see if they have a DS-II or a DS-21 scan tool. I should be able to sniff the codes sent from the tool to the Copen - particularly if they are sent on pin 7.
     
  12. threepot

    threepot Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2014
    Car(s):
    Copen, Hijet, Celica, and Yaris!
    Yes, pretty sure Copens are on KWP, not CAN.

    Plus why not just retrieve the codes via the paperclip trick?
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2014
  13. Number6

    Number6 Copenworld Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2013
    Location:
    Dublin
    Car(s):
    2005 0.7L Copen
    Yeah, it's KWP, which may make things harder.

    It's not that I want to receive the codes, I want to be able to send codes as well - mainly the codes for the windows to go down, to control the quarter windows, boot, and door locks.
     
  14. threepot

    threepot Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2014
    Car(s):
    Copen, Hijet, Celica, and Yaris!
    For what purpose? Testing?
     
  15. Number6

    Number6 Copenworld Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2013
    Location:
    Dublin
    Car(s):
    2005 0.7L Copen
    No, I want to control the windows from an Android app in my phone.
     
  16. threepot

    threepot Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2014
    Car(s):
    Copen, Hijet, Celica, and Yaris!
    I have LOADS of diagnostic gear, and a copen....

    So now reading the whole tread, I will try various bits of kit at hand and see if any can talk to the window ecu - or anything other than the engine for that matter.

    I'll try:-

    Autel MS908
    Autel DS708
    Snap on Verus Pro
    Autocom Delphi 2013

    Over the next few days, if non of these work I'd say its a lost cause.
     
  17. Number6

    Number6 Copenworld Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2013
    Location:
    Dublin
    Car(s):
    2005 0.7L Copen
    Sweet. I know AutoCom just does standard OBD-II, with no Daihatsu specific DTCs.

    Hopefully the cables arrive when I get back to Ireland from my work trip, so I can try sniffing the alternate pin on the socket.

    Looking at the wiring diagram, I don't see a firewall between the ECU and the OBD-II port - so this confirms, along with protocol selection, that KWP is at play.

    I really hope that the alternate pin will shed some extra data :)
     
  18. threepot

    threepot Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2014
    Car(s):
    Copen, Hijet, Celica, and Yaris!
    Non of the above gear detects or even lists the roof system, or anything other than the engine ecu. Tested earlier while I had a minute.
     
  19. Number6

    Number6 Copenworld Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2013
    Location:
    Dublin
    Car(s):
    2005 0.7L Copen
    Yeah, normal normal scanners don't. I have been told by by a dealer that the DS - I I dealer level scanner can open the boot, so here is hoping it does other things as well
     
  20. threepot

    threepot Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2014
    Car(s):
    Copen, Hijet, Celica, and Yaris!
    I know someone who has a Denso DS-II with Toyota software on it, so if we can find a copy of the firmware/update for Daihatsu v4.00 then we can crack this game right open.
     
data-ad-format="auto">

Share This Page