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a strange leak - help!

Discussion in 'Problems, Fixes, Tips...' started by dsb, Jan 6, 2014.

  1. dsb

    dsb Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    May 15, 2013
    Location:
    abingdon oxfordshire
    Car(s):
    copen vivid
    so...
    at the weekend i put silicone sealant around my brake light hoping to solve the leak into my boot.
    today i've checked and... no luck.
    i put a plastic sheet in the boot to catch any water just in case, no water on there.
    however, the centre portion of carpet is soggy and there's a bit of water down at the rear - where the jack etc are.
    it's as if the water is somehow infiltration the centre only - and not from above.
    anyone ever experienced this? - and cured it?
    could it be one of the other seals?
     
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  2. Klausanta

    Klausanta Copenworld Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2012
    Location:
    Surrey
    Car(s):
    Renault Megane
    Hi dsb

    Well if nothing else you are not alone.

    I replaced the seal on my middle rear brake light unit with the correct Daihatsu part some time ago, but as far as I can see it has made no difference at all.

    Note the images in the post showing the water in the centre of the boot of our car. Is this like yours?

    http://www.copenworld.com/vb3/showthread.php?t=1389

    As you will see from my latest post, I have just removed another bucket full of water from the rear of our Copen (and removed the rear grommet and gaffer taped up the rear brake light completely).

    http://www.copenworld.com/vb3/showthread.php?t=2092

    As you rightly say, the carpet in the middle of the boot (under the plastic luggage partition section) is absolutely soaked (ringing wet) but there is no evidence that the water has come from above (middle brake light unit). Great minds must think alike as I have also added a large plastic sheet between the two as well.

    I have made similar observations in other posts on the forum previously and I have tried to find out where the water ingress comes from without success.

    My original thought was that the boot alignment/adjustment/gaps were wrong but I have no way of confirming this and I am not prepared to fiddle with any adjustments just in case it messes up the roof operation (more than it already is).

    KS
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2014
  3. dsb

    dsb Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    May 15, 2013
    Location:
    abingdon oxfordshire
    Car(s):
    copen vivid
    does look similar - water in that dip, the underneath of the carpet damp (that strange foamy material)
    I did notice that the small back window on one side was very misted up but not it's twin on the other side - wondering if it's getting in that way?
    might have to contact a former dealership near me to see if it has knowledge of the problem.
    now I just need a day without rain to experiment....
    someone at work suggested that I have someone in the boot with a torch and I take a watering can to it - think with this car i'd need a dwarf or small child.
     
  4. Number6

    Number6 Copenworld Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2013
    Location:
    Dublin
    Car(s):
    2005 0.7L Copen
  5. PauliePaul

    PauliePaul Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2012
    Location:
    Bedford
    dont worry guys i have the same exact problem... and i changed my boot light seal with a factory one too and i get a wet boot too but only a problem in winter not summer... i cant be bothered with chasing after it as i have already change the most likely cause the boot light so what im doing to take the water is i put a towel under the boot carpet to take the water and it does the job nicely just end up with a soaked towel with all the rain and the boots fine even takes it away from central carpet too so thats not soaked and then after a few days i replace with dry towel... only gotta do it during winter :rolleyes: ;)
     
  6. Klausanta

    Klausanta Copenworld Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2012
    Location:
    Surrey
    Car(s):
    Renault Megane
    The amount of water in our boot would take far more than one dry towel to clear as it is back to being absolutely soaking wet!

    The wet then causes even more condensation to drip in the boot and for the windows to steam up in the front. Even worse is that the car now even smells damp.

    Personally, I think this may also have long term implications for the electrical equipment in the boot especially the roof ECU and sensors etc.

    Not sure turning a blind eye in winter will help our situation especially as the car is in use every day and as we do not have a garage, open to the unpredictable English weather.

    KS
     
  7. copenabana

    copenabana Copenworld Newbie

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2013
    Location:
    Steeple Aston, Oxfordshire
    Car(s):
    Copen, Smart & Fiat 500
    Water in boot

    Again, the main culprit is condensation, my Copen is little used, lives outside, the boot lid having no insulation qualities, drips (and acts almost like a fridge) with condensation, even after leathering it dry, during one standing week the lower boot area is filled with water, as I stated in a previous thread, a small hole needs drilled into the lowest area of the boot, this immediately allows water to escape, and may help to reduce the condensation problem.
    During summer this problem really doesn't exist, the vehicle is dry, with very little moisture evident.
     
  8. dsb

    dsb Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    May 15, 2013
    Location:
    abingdon oxfordshire
    Car(s):
    copen vivid
    you may be right - but when you see so much of it you wonder if it could possibly be.
    having said that, today we taped blue paper roll to the roof of the boot, covering the whole thing.
    we then closed it and took a watering can to the whole rear of the car - simulating a monsoon.
    waited a few minutes, opened the boot, no damp patches on the paper - so now i'll see what it looks like in the morning as rain is expected.
    I've secreted two of those ceramic egg things inside - maybe they will help make a difference.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2014
  9. PauliePaul

    PauliePaul Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2012
    Location:
    Bedford
    the boot floor already has drain holes no need to make any holes yourself, they are the black rubber thingys even one under the jack... makes me think that when this car was made they must have expected this boot problem with leaks to happen to put drain holes there from when it was new
     
  10. dsb

    dsb Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    May 15, 2013
    Location:
    abingdon oxfordshire
    Car(s):
    copen vivid
    an update!
    so....
    last night taped blue paper to the lid of the boot - and it's not damp so I assume sealing the brake light has worked (if it was ever leaking to begin with)
    laid blue paper across the floor of the boot.
    mostly dry, but wet on the left hand side - seemed to reach way back.
    sat in car and pulled forward the passenger seat - and the carpet behind that is sodden!
    so.... i'm now hoping that the brake light leaked, the water by osmosis made it's way through via carpet to the main car and since the fix is soaking back.
    a bit far fetched maybe but I've now left the roof down and seat forward in the unseasonal sun so it can get to drying after I towelled it a bit.
    hopefully once it's dry, the problem will be gone - if not then I think i'll have to bite the bullet and visit a garage.
     
  11. PauliePaul

    PauliePaul Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2012
    Location:
    Bedford
    thats the downside to the copen... i think in a way you have to just live with it and just do what you can to keep it dry... other convertables suffer with leaking problems like the mx5 for example suffers with leaking boot
     
  12. Klausanta

    Klausanta Copenworld Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2012
    Location:
    Surrey
    Car(s):
    Renault Megane
    Hi dsb

    I have been taking a similar tact. Our boot lid brake light is and has been for a few days now completely taped up with black gaffer tape on the outside. After standing for two days in the rain, I had a good look yesterday and found that the boot was still wet and dripping with condensation (like normal) but there was no indication of an actual leak coming from above.

    When I looked in the car I noticed a wet patch on the passenger seat and water dripping from around the top of the passenger window and the roof lock lever as if the roof was not shut properly on that side and the floor all around the passenger seat was completely soaked at the front and the rear. I had noticed dampness around the front passenger seat some time ago as it had gone mouldy but I thought this had come from the leak in the boot. I had also seen on a few occasions a white patch actually on the leather of the passenger seat but did not take a lot of notice and just wiped it off.

    Anyway, I opened and closed the roof a few times, oiled and greased everything I could see that moved and treated all the rubber trim with a silicone spray. I then got my wife to hose the top of the car and the area around the passenger window and I could not see any leaks at all. I have now covered the floor around the passenger seat with dry towels and will keep a close eye on how things progress. I am going to reply to a different topic about tightening up the roof lock levers as I noticed yesterday that on both sides of our Copen the roof lock levers were at the maximum of their adjustment but were (in my opinion) a little too easy to close as if they were not pulling the roof closed tight enough.

    Could it be that the boot filling up with water is actually caused by a leak in the front?

    KS
     
  13. Rex

    Rex Copenworld Pioneer

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2009
    Location:
    Cardiff
    Car(s):
    Copen
    You could try undoing the bolts that hold the catches on the windscreen side. I have found there is quite a lot of play in these, and you could adjust to make the roof pull tighter.

    Rex.
     
  14. Klausanta

    Klausanta Copenworld Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2012
    Location:
    Surrey
    Car(s):
    Renault Megane
    Hi All

    Update.....

    I have had the rear boot brake light assembly completely covered over now for a couple of weeks but still the old Copen has a dripping wet boot and the front passenger side floor has still not dried out either. Every time I go to drive the car it takes an absolute age to demist the soaking wet rear and side windows and on a journey they start to mist up again. The car also smells damp and the anti-condensation things purchased from eBay are no use whatsoever. With the weather we have had lately and the lack of a garage it has not been easy to dry the car out and it is becoming more and more frustrating.

    So I need to get this sorted and have been doing a little research.

    Have a look at this clip from the TV series Wheeler Dealers. I hate Mike Brewer but maybe Ed has a good solution?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGirjqyrMcY

    You can actually buy a new disco smoke machine fairly cheaply and they start at 0.99p on eBay for a used one if you can find one to collect in your area.

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mini-Smok...spherics_ET&hash=item48500efee4#ht_430wt_1161

    This is a brand new fog machine with remote control and 300ml of fluid for under £30.00. You can even purchase a smoke fragrance that in my case may overpower the smell of damp.

    The next alternative is not so technical but might do the same job at only £3.29 although there could be a few more implications/risks involved?

    http://www.screwfix.com/p/smoke-pel... & plumbing &gclid=CLzmkpCcy7UCFUTItAodtxgA3Q

    Or these at £2.89?

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PH-Produc...arden_Hearing_Cooling_Air&hash=item25889953e1

    And finally, what about this for another technical solution at £49.99?

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190798198...X:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_3656wt_1399

    Found a description on how this works here.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XG_6etn4j40

    All comments would be appreciated before I splash out!

    KS
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2014
  15. Adam K

    Adam K Copenworld Guru

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2010
    Location:
    Worcester, UK
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    Nissan Cube Kaizen
  16. Klausanta

    Klausanta Copenworld Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2012
    Location:
    Surrey
    Car(s):
    Renault Megane
    Hi Adam

    Yes, I did look at that post but I am not convinced mine is the same. My boot is covered in water everywhere not just in the rear section (where the rubber bung is located) and I have also got a soaking wet front carpet.

    I will give this a closer inspection now I know what I am looking for and where to inspect.

    Many thanks

    KS
     
  17. dsb

    dsb Copenworld Regular

    Joined:
    May 15, 2013
    Location:
    abingdon oxfordshire
    Car(s):
    copen vivid
    what became apparent to me with my leak was that the boot and inside the car are linked via hidden fabric(!)
    therefore even though I could stop the water entering the boot, and I could dry in the car, water would be replenished from the hidden area between the two.
    therefore I put a wodge of paper (printer listing from work) behind the passenger seat and put two bricks on top to add pressure - this caused the paper to suck out water very well.
    not convinced my problems are totally gone but certainly far more manageable at the moment - just need to examine the boot seal as mentioned.
     
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